General Oil extraction via dipstick

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General Oil extraction via dipstick

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Has anyone tried this with a 1.2 engine?

I've done it to great effect with previous cars, but don't know if the Panda dipstick tube allows for it.

Has anyone tried it (before I buy a pump)?
 
they work on my old Punto. 1.2 engine so don't see why it wouldn't work..

not sure why you'd bother. Unless the drain plug is damaged or you have fitted a sump guard

with the engine oil warm I just reach under to the back of the sump and loosen the plug. Then slide under a drain pan, which just fits without jacking the car and remove the plug. I then inspect the plug. The filter can also be changed without jacking the car. I pour some clean oil in and let a little flow out before fitting the plug back

the whole job is quick and easy and no jacking required.


in garages things are different as time is money and they can evacuate the oil straight into a large storage barrel.
 
Just be careful loosing the oil drain plug. I believe they often get stripped threads, because it's easy (from under the car) to get confused which way loosens the threads.
 
Given the option I'd always go for removing the sump plug rather than sucking out through the dipstick tube. Get the oil nice and hot before doing it - watch your fingers with the hot oil - and the oil will rush out just like water, hopefully taking more solid debris with it. I don't think a suction pipe will achieve this? Then I drain the container, a 5 litre oil can with the side cut out of it, and inspect what's left in the container - looking for "foreigners" which will often give themselves away by looking like Christmas tree glitter.
 
The Humble mechanic (YouTube) did a test on his VW Golf R which is designed to have the oil sucked out via the dipstick tube.

He wasn’t convinced that all the dirty oil would be removed so he ducked it out and the. Removed the drain plug anyway that car has a plastic drain plug that has to be replaced if removed but it’s cheap and he found a good 50ml of old still left in the sump and by sucking out as already pointed out above it doesn’t tend to take all the crap out with it. Any dirt or debris get left behind in that last 50lm of oil that gets dirtier and dirtier every time you change the oil that way rather than just drain the sump
 
We don't have them on cars (and they'd almost certainly be a struggle to fit) but fine mesh bypass filters are a great idea. They filter down to 5 microns when normal full flow filters are 40 micron. 5% to 10%of the oil flow is fed to the bypass so the oil is continually "polished" The sump oil lasts longer but more importantly the engine lasts longer. The filter can be monitored with a differential oil pressure gauge. But even if it clogs the main filter is always there.


HOWEVER nobody makes anything for car engines, but maybe someone will do some research on the idea.
 
I have a Pela 6000 and used it a few times.
I did our old 1.2 Panda which the mother in law now has and it worked a treat, just warm up the engine as normal, pull out the dipstick and feed the probe in until it stops, a couple of pumps on the handle and off to make a brew.
It will go right to the bottom of the sump no problem.

After the first time I used it I pulled the sump and checked, nothing else came out, not even a drip.

The only drawback is you still need to get under with a oil tray when you remove the oil filter as it's horizontal and still filled with oil which will spill out when you unscrew it.

I am not sure what solid debris or dirt would be swilling around in the oil that the filter wouldn't trap and they are almost always used on marine engines and I haven't seen any real evidence they stuff up there engines with debris because of it.
 
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If you are careful, a small hole poked into the filter with a sharp-point, will drip away the trapped oil while you have a cup of tea. When you do unscrew it, there's next to no oily mess. Just dont forget to change the punctured filter (oops).
 
If you are careful, a small hole poked into the filter with a sharp-point, will drip away the trapped oil while you have a cup of tea. When you do unscrew it, there's next to no oily mess. Just dont forget to change the punctured filter (oops).
seems over complicated

The whole Job takes less than two minutes. No need to jack the car. unless your arms aren't long enough
I loosen the filter first and remove the oil filler cap
undo the sump plug
reach up and remove the filter. Keeping it vertical no oil drips out then just tip it out to the drain pan


go inside and make a cup of coffee
 
Most modern cars now use a plastic filter container with the replaceable paper filter element. Can’t poke holes in it as it’s not replaceable and they will absolutely cover everything in oil as soon as you open it.

There is plenty that a modern oil filter won’t pick up, I’ve know a filter to break a part internally and not clean the oil at all.

Going back to suction pumps, you can’t see what’s going on so if the tube of the pump deflects off the bottom of the sump then it could bend back and be a few mm above the bottom of the sump, also the diameter of the tube of the pump pretty much guarantees that some oil will be left in the bottom as soon as air can travel up the tube it won’t bring up any more oil
 
seems over complicated

The whole Job takes less than two minutes. No need to jack the car. unless your arms aren't long enough
I loosen the filter first and remove the oil filler cap
undo the sump plug
reach up and remove the filter. Keeping it vertical no oil drips out then just tip it out to the drain pan


go inside and make a cup of coffee
I'd agree; changing the oil on the 1.2 Panda/500 is about as simple as it gets. For me, it's all about minimising mess; the hassle of cleaning any kind of suction apparatus would make this a non-starter. Syphoning does, however, work well for getting the coolant out of those models with the expansion tank at the side of the rad, particularly if the coolant is to be reused (if changing a thermostat, for example).

You can do the job without lifting the car, but I find access is easier if I raise the front drivers side just to the point where the wheel is about to come off the ground. Don't raise it too far, or you may not get all the old oil out. Like koalar, I loosen the filter, remove the drain plug, and then unscrew the filter once most of the oil has drained.

A few practical hints:

Wear nitrile gloves; used oil is carcinogenic

An old duvet placed under the car will catch any splashes, and is more comfortable to lie on than the driveway

A 6 pint plastic milk container with one side cut out makes a great disposable catch can and is just the right size to hold all the old oil

Cutting the top off an empty 2 litre plastic water bottle makes a useful disposable funnel for getting the new oil in

To help the oil flow smoothly, either remove the filler cap or raise the dipstick to stop a partial vacuum forming in the sump when the plug comes out

Wiping a rag soaked in old oil over the outside of the sump helps prevent it rusting through (a common issue with these engines)

Choose a calm day; a strong wind will blow oil everywhere, particularly the last drips.
 
I dont think there is a right or wrong, better or worse way. Drain or extraction both get the job done

here's how I see it

Draining

Pros
cheaper
faster
Less likely to leave any oil behind
Quiet
while looking at the underside you would spot other faults such as weeping sump or CV grease

Cons
you can make a mess if your not careful
you may have to lift the car if you can't reach
possibility of sump pan damage

extracting

Pros
clean
no need to lift the car (I can remove the filter on the 169 but it doesn't quite come out the top)
no chance of damaging the sump

Cons
slower
noisy
depending on your system you may need an air supply
it may not be as efficient at removing every last drop

If I was extracting I would be tempted to add a little clean oil an suck that out

any oil change is better than none and I doubt there's anything in either way.. If my only choice was to do the job on a busy street. I would be tempted to go the extraction route.
 
You won't be able to drain all the oil out of an engine via the drain plug just as you won't get every smear of oil out with a pump.
A percentage will be left behind inside clinging to every surface.

There have been a few back to back tests using both methods and they seem to suggest both are as effective as each with a few exceptions.

Some cars do have baffles in the sump pan that prevent the oil from being thrown away from the pickup pipe that can prevent a pump prode reaching inside, though those same baffles can also retain oil when draining via the sump plug.

Another thing to consider is that not all sump plugs are at the lowest point of the sump.
Some manufacturers site them for easy of access, so they can leave oil behind in the sump as it just won't run uphill to the hole unaided.
(for example, look at a A class sump pan, the drain hole is half way up the side)

Some engines don't even have a sump plug and have to be pumped out, no other way unless you turn the thing upside down.

As for debris passing through a filter.
Most filters are made to ISO standards (ISO 4548-12)
They will repeatedly screen the oil down to around 10 microns (around the same diameter as a human red blood cell).

Now a good, naked, human eye can detect things around the 50 to 60 micron range, so if you are draining the oil and detecting debris in it with your eye, you have bigger problems than the method you are using to drain it!

As for filters breaking up, that may or may not happen with either system of oil extraction and I doubt there's anything, anywhere that suggests one method causes filters to break up more than the other.

The probes on the pumps I've used are like a bowden cable (bike brake cable, they flex enough over the whole length but are just too stiff to bounce off anything and bend back on itself.
They hit whatever they hit and stop. Keep pushing and they just bounce back like a spring.

So if your pump collects around the same as conventional draining (and it's easier and less messy to measure in the pumps tank) and you don't use a knock off oil filter, there's really be nothing in it other than preference.
 


This is the video in question

He is left with 100ml in the sump despite having pumped out as much as he could by suction.

He also talks in this video about extended service intervals having an impact on the filter.

I didn't say anything about any one method of removing oil causing any damage to the filter. How could it? it was more a response to previous comments about fitting extra filters.
There are many engines in history that don't even have an oil filter anyway.

The advantage of draining the oil properly if you have the choice to drain it or use suction are clear, there can be quite a lot of oil left behind, What's left behind also tends to be the bottom of the sump sludge.

Many cars have different methods of doing these things, some cars (usually Mercedes) are only meant to have the oil taken out by suction and some don't have a sump plug at all.

The Fiat 1.2 was designed to have its oil drained. It has a low point sump plug and so draining the oil should be the most effective way to do it. Also many cars have a magnet on the back of the sump plug to catch and store any metal that is floating around in the oil another way to keep the engine clean, removing the plug is a good way to check for these sorts of things.

I'm not fully against suction methods but you should really only be using it where the car is designed for it, or like in the video, it keeps everything neat and clean and then there is very little oil left to drain out the manual way.

One more advantage of draining the oil is being able to leave the sump open while you get a cup of tea or while you change the filter meaning you can get as much of the oil out as you can and as you're willing to wait. Many cars can squeeze a little bit more by raising or lowing a jack on one side of the car.
 
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