Technical Odd Cinq Gearbox problem

[TheGreenBean]

I am hoping to draw upon the accumulated knowlege of the esteemed members of this august body......(right that's enough creeping!)

I am a relatively new owner of a bright green 899 Cinq (hence the username) which has just developed an "odd" gear selection problem. Basically, I can't engage any odd number gear (first, third, fifth).


I have had the cables off and they seem to move OK (but don't have much to compare with though, as I had not really watched their movement before the problem). The retainer clips at the back of the engine/gearbox are also present.


Not sure if this is relevent or not , but getting the "front" cable back on to the splined shaft on the gearbox was fun. The shaft wants to retract into the gearbox with even the slightest pressure on it, so getting the splined wedge-shaped housing (that the "front" cable is fitted to - it has to push/slide over the splined shaft, then be bolted and circlipped) back on was entertaining.....

With everythig back together, second, fourth and reverse still engage OK. The problem with 1st. 3rd and 5th is still present, either with or without the engine running. Clutch position (engaged or not) makes no odds to the problem either.


On the basis that this is a 23 year old car and the gearbox filler is not the easiest thing to get at (i.e. previous owners might not have bothered to top-up/change), I topped up the G'box oil. No effect - problem still there.


Due to inclement weather, I have only been under the bonnet so far. I've not crawled under the car yet to look at the bottom of the gearstick selector mechanism, which is the next thing to do when it finally does decide to stop raining.


The fact that the problem affects one direction of cable movement (pushing the gearstick forward, which I think translates to the cable being pulled) suggested that it is a cable problem. However, they seem to move OK (but not enough? i.e. stretched?), but as said, I don't have anything to compare with.


Has anyone had this problem or does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should be looking for when under the car? (as it is normally great fun to drive, and want to be doing so again ASAP!)


Cheers in advance for any help!

Bob

 

[Prawny12009]

I've not much experience with fiats tbh.

Are they dual cable or a bar/pivot set up?

Often dual cable cars have an inner part with a solid "rod" surrounded by a wound wire cable.

If the inner rod breaks you will only get full movement in one direction.

Alternatively if the outer cable isn't secure both ends (broken bracket/lock ring) it can move away from the bracket so you only get movement in one direction.

 

[varesecrazy]

Are they adjustable?

My mk1 panda had rod and locknut adjustment

 

[Prawny12009]

That is another option, the gearstick might be running out of room.

Does the gear lever sit Central in the car? Do you get a similar throw going forward as you do going backwards?

 

[alfacool]

Could it be something as simple as the rear gearbox/engine mount has lost its stiffness?
Seem to remember when this mount goes it causes difficulty engaging gears as the gearbox sits too low.
Might be worth checking that out.

 

[TheGreenBean]

Apologies for the delay in responding - I've been picking steel splinters out of my fingers, having got the car back in one piece - thanks for your help/suggestions, it is greatly appreciated at this end.

Thanks Varese The cables are not adjustable (to my knowledge), movement seems OK with them disconnected (but I don't have anything to compare with). I have spoken with JimInWatford and am getting a known good set on the car. Will have spares this way if nothing else.


Cheers Prawny - will check this out - have been under the bonnet but need to wait unil the swamp has drained to get underneath (hopefully it will stop raining soon). Gear lever seems pretty much central, this was something I checked (i.e. was it clouting something...). It will cleanly engage in even gears and reverse, but the gearstick just wants to return to central position if pushed forward (i.e. odd gears)


Much appareciated Alfa: I had not thought of this......I'll go and check.


Can I just say thanks again to each of you, having extra brains is really helpful. I'll report back once I have acted on the above!


Cheers


Bob

 

[purf]

This happened to me years ago! I expect its the same selector as the sporting gearbox?


The shaft that you say was droppinginto the gearbox when you where bolting the lever back on - this is the problem!

"The shaft wants to retract into the gearbox with even the slightest pressure on it"

When this drops down, if the gear selectors move then it can miss its proper position.


The solution - there are about 5 or 6 bolts holding the selector housing onto the top of the gearbox. If you remove these you will see the selector and where is should go.

I have bolted it back together in the past without any sealant on the housin . The feactory seal is green. I had no noticable leaks or anything but you could put some blue hylomar on it or a small amount of silicone sealant if you wanted to.


I will try and find a picture.

 

[purf]

I remember now - you have to unbolt the housing and turn upside-down to see this:

hope this resolves your issue?!

 

[rallycinq]

Purf might well be into something, but there are also known issues with the gearbox mounts failing and the nylon cup in the bottom of the selector breaking up.

D

 

[TheGreenBean]

Hi Purf and RallyCinq,


Firstly, can I apologise for the delay in responding - had a family matter crop up and it has taken my eye off the ball, so to speak.


Thank you for your help and advice. I have parts (cables) through from JiminWatford - arrived over the weekend (we're in the sticks and stuff always takes longer to get here). However, due to the family matter mentioned, I've not had the spanners out recently + I wanted to have some known "good" parts to hand when I did, if you follow me (excuses, excuses I hear you say!).

The selector shaft issue (thanks Purf) gives me something to think about. I had not removed the G'box top cover to inspect same (previous experiences of spring-loaded items disappearing into the wild blue yonder have made me wary of getting too enthusiastic with the spanners before reading up first...), but think that's now on the "to do" list now.......

Will report back when there is a bit more dirt under the fingernails.....but, once again, thanks for the support - it makes a huge difference in terms of confidence in approaching the job.


Best wishes


Bob

 

[TheGreenBean]

Can I just say a big "thank you" to all you good people!

Having removed the gear lever shroud, extracted all the accumulated detritus (crumbs, sweetie wrappers, small children.......) my eyes alighted on a small crack (no salacious comments please, this is a Family-Friendly Fiat Forum!) in the white nylon cup........Yes, the old "white nylon cup" routine again!


Having provided JimInWatford with an appropriate number of beer tokens, TheGreenBean is now replete with one carefully-owned Sei gear selector mechanism......


I can heartily recommend this modification: the performance improvement (pulling away from the lights in first gear, not second...or occasionally fourth....) is truly ASTOUNDING......(a further benefit also is that people don't stand and point any more......).


Anyway, the good lady of the house has rewarded my efforts by breaking the driver's seat (so it looks like I'm going to learning to "love the smell of mig welding wire in the morning......")


Thanks again to all you good people, you know who you are.....much appreciated!


Bob