Technical Noise after timing belt and aux belt

[Blackie27]

Hi Puggit Auld Jock.

For what I have gathered, Remco only manufactured clutch assembly parts before the "EV" revolution or Con depending where you stand on the matter. When I bought the Timing belt kit and water pump I was focusing on price to be honest and I got the full kit for £34.00. I did not know anything about QH to be fair. Although I looked at their website, they just come across as another parts supplier.
I am just new to fixing cars, I am not a Car Mechanic although the prices some of the charge, I wish I went down thar route. My profession was Electrical/ Mechanical engineer, where my focus was factor production machinery breakdown, maintenance and plant installation.
Long story. 2013 I hade a life changing accident and I had my driving licence taken away due to medical reasons. Last year I successfully past the DVLA medical to be passed fit to drive once more.
So I bought a Fiat panda as a run-around to get me used to driving once more. The guy wanted £500 and I got him down to £350 due to no recent service history and no history on the timing belt. I did not know at the time there was a Non-Interference engine in the Panda and I don't think he did too.
So I have given it a full service and belts and water pump change. Apart from the noise I mentioned earlier everything is going well and it still has 7 month MOT on it. I will change the shocks and springs before the mot as they look original. It is as 2009 with 69k on the clock and seams genuine with the mot history check
No Rust anywhere and paintwork is sound. So I think I got a little cracker.

Ian

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi Puggit Auld Jock.

For what I have gathered, Remco only manufactured clutch assembly parts before the "EV" revolution or Con depending where you stand on the matter. When I bought the Timing belt kit and water pump I was focusing on price to be honest and I got the full kit for £34.00. I did not know anything about QH to be fair. Although I looked at their website, they just come across as another parts supplier.
I am just new to fixing cars, I am not a Car Mechanic although the prices some of the charge, I wish I went down thar route. My profession was Electrical/ Mechanical engineer, where my focus was factor production machinery breakdown, maintenance and plant installation.
Long story. 2013 I hade a life changing accident and I had my driving licence taken away due to medical reasons. Last year I successfully past the DVLA medical to be passed fit to drive once more.
So I bought a Fiat panda as a run-around to get me used to driving once more. The guy wanted £500 and I got him down to £350 due to no recent service history and no history on the timing belt. I did not know at the time there was a Non-Interference engine in the Panda and I don't think he did too.
So I have given it a full service and belts and water pump change. Apart from the noise I mentioned earlier everything is going well and it still has 7 month MOT on it. I will change the shocks and springs before the mot as they look original. It is as 2009 with 69k on the clock and seams genuine with the mot history check
No Rust anywhere and paintwork is sound. So I think I got a little cracker.

Ian

Hi Blackie27. A complete kit, so I guess belt, water pump and idler/tensioner for £34 is jolly good going. Any idea if it's old stock? belts deteriorate with age as well as use - might be something to consider if it's been on a shelf somewhere for a long time? I hope I haven't made you think the QH stuff is suspect? It was a very well known brand of reasonable quality. I just don't know what they are like now and I've not had any of their stuff for many years. Also I don't think there are that many actual manufacturers of synchronous belts (which is what a timing belt is) so many of these "branded" products will actually contain a belt made by one of the big manufacturers and probably water pump and tensioner from another.

Very sorry to hear of your accident and I'm pleased to hear you're firing on all four now! A close relative lost her licence on medical grounds and it took a long time for her to get it back even though she recovered from the condition quite quickly and was signed fit by the docs. So I know what it's like. With a practical background like yours you will already have considerable tool skills which you can transfer to repairing vehicles.

If you don't have one yet buy the Haynes Manual. These manuals are not "the greatest thing since sliced bread" but do contain a great deal of useful info and tips on working on the cars in a DIY type environment and very well worth the cost - look for a second hand one on ebay etc.

You really couldn't have chosen a better car to start off doing your own maintenance and repairs and this forum is stuffed full with guides and info to say nothing of the rest of us enthusiasts, some with trade backgrounds like me, who are very happy to give help and advice.

Please keep a regular check on your levels - I do so weekly - especially coolant level. The FIRE engine family is a range of engines which have proven to be very robust but they really, really, don't like running low on coolant and will "reward" you by blowing the head gasket if you do. A cool heater output is often a good early warning that the level is dropping and the heater circuit has airlocked. So, no, or little heat from the heater? immediately check coolant level! When you have the time, take a look at the rear axle and in particular the spring pans which have a reputation for rusting and can fail MOT on them. If it comes to it a pattern made axle is available from IM Axles at a very reasonable cost and changing it over is quite doable if you have a reasonable tool kit and somewhere to work on it. Also there is a metal coolant pipe which runs along the front of the engine behind the exhaust manifold which can leak due to localized corrosion (it can look great but have a wee rusty bit which is rusting, so look carefully) it's often the source of an unexplained coolant loss. Front calipers need a yearly service to stop them seizing, not difficult. Don't over tighten the handbrake cable as this can override the self adjusters in the rear drums. The rear rubber bush in the front suspension arms can wear and cause tyres to wear more rapidly or, if badly worn, weird steering and suspension "clunks" over bumpy roads. worn drop links on the front suspension can produce an alarming knock too but are cheap and cheerful to renew. Hesitation or poor running of the engine can often be improved by cleaning the MAP sensor in the inlet manifold as they get contaminated with oil mist from the breather system. It's only held in by one screw and can be cleaned with something like brake cleaner or a dedicated sensor cleaner - ensure it's dried out before refitting to the manifold. There's more I could mention but I think I'll stop there because you'll be thinking these cars are "rubbish"? Nothing could be further from the truth, they are reliable wee machines but need regular maintenance. We've run Pandas continuously in the family since my daughter (now 48 years old with a couple of teenagers of her own) learned to drive in one when she was at Uni. When the time comes to replace Becky, our 1.2 Eco Dynamic, unless we are forced into buying electric, it'll be another Panda for us.

I find pretty much everything I need to keep ours running is available off the shelf at local motor factors and very reasonably priced - my regular "Go To" for everyday service stuff is SRS https://allianceautomotive.co.uk/member/24736/napa-auto-parts-edinburgh/ who have recently been bought out by NAPA and seem all the better for it. For genuine Fiat parts and other more difficult to get stuff I go to Shop4parts (there's a forum discount which you can access by making even just a small donation to the forum) These folk really know their stuff regarding Fiat parts and are very approachable by phone if you are looking for something you can't buy locally - don't be afraid to ring them. However the shipping doesn't make sense for small/inexpensive items.

So, good luck with your Panda, please do post and let us know how you're doing and what your undertaking. Oh, and don't be reluctant to ask for help and advice on here, we're all only too pleased to help if we can.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi Blackie27. A complete kit, so I guess belt, water pump and idler/tensioner for £34 is jolly good going. Any idea if it's old stock? belts deteriorate with age as well as use - might be something to consider if it's been on a shelf somewhere for a long time? I hope I haven't made you think the QH stuff is suspect? It was a very well known brand of reasonable quality. I just don't know what they are like now and I've not had any of their stuff for many years. Also I don't think there are that many actual manufacturers of synchronous belts (which is what a timing belt is) so many of these "branded" products will actually contain a belt made by one of the big manufacturers and probably water pump and tensioner from another.

Very sorry to hear of your accident and I'm pleased to hear you're firing on all four now! A close relative lost her licence on medical grounds and it took a long time for her to get it back even though she recovered from the condition quite quickly and was signed fit by the docs. So I know what it's like. With a practical background like yours you will already have considerable tool skills which you can transfer to repairing vehicles.

If you don't have one yet buy the Haynes Manual. These manuals are not "the greatest thing since sliced bread" but do contain a great deal of useful info and tips on working on the cars in a DIY type environment and very well worth the cost - look for a second hand one on ebay etc.

You really couldn't have chosen a better car to start off doing your own maintenance and repairs and this forum is stuffed full with guides and info to say nothing of the rest of us enthusiasts, some with trade backgrounds like me, who are very happy to give help and advice.

Please keep a regular check on your levels - I do so weekly - especially coolant level. The FIRE engine family is a range of engines which have proven to be very robust but they really, really, don't like running low on coolant and will "reward" you by blowing the head gasket if you do. A cool heater output is often a good early warning that the level is dropping and the heater circuit has airlocked. So, no, or little heat from the heater? immediately check coolant level! When you have the time, take a look at the rear axle and in particular the spring pans which have a reputation for rusting and can fail MOT on them. If it comes to it a pattern made axle is available from IM Axles at a very reasonable cost and changing it over is quite doable if you have a reasonable tool kit and somewhere to work on it. Also there is a metal coolant pipe which runs along the front of the engine behind the exhaust manifold which can leak due to localized corrosion (it can look great but have a wee rusty bit which is rusting, so look carefully) it's often the source of an unexplained coolant loss. Front calipers need a yearly service to stop them seizing, not difficult. Don't over tighten the handbrake cable as this can override the self adjusters in the rear drums. The rear rubber bush in the front suspension arms can wear and cause tyres to wear more rapidly or, if badly worn, weird steering and suspension "clunks" over bumpy roads. worn drop links on the front suspension can produce an alarming knock too but are cheap and cheerful to renew. Hesitation or poor running of the engine can often be improved by cleaning the MAP sensor in the inlet manifold as they get contaminated with oil mist from the breather system. It's only held in by one screw and can be cleaned with something like brake cleaner or a dedicated sensor cleaner - ensure it's dried out before refitting to the manifold. There's more I could mention but I think I'll stop there because you'll be thinking these cars are "rubbish"? Nothing could be further from the truth, they are reliable wee machines but need regular maintenance. We've run Pandas continuously in the family since my daughter (now 48 years old with a couple of teenagers of her own) learned to drive in one when she was at Uni. When the time comes to replace Becky, our 1.2 Eco Dynamic, unless we are forced into buying electric, it'll be another Panda for us.

I find pretty much everything I need to keep ours running is available off the shelf at local motor factors and very reasonably priced - my regular "Go To" for everyday service stuff is SRS https://allianceautomotive.co.uk/member/24736/napa-auto-parts-edinburgh/ who have recently been bought out by NAPA and seem all the better for it. For genuine Fiat parts and other more difficult to get stuff I go to Shop4parts (there's a forum discount which you can access by making even just a small donation to the forum) These folk really know their stuff regarding Fiat parts and are very approachable by phone if you are looking for something you can't buy locally - don't be afraid to ring them. However the shipping doesn't make sense for small/inexpensive items.

So, good luck with your Panda, please do post and let us know how you're doing and what your undertaking. Oh, and don't be reluctant to ask for help and advice on here, we're all only too pleased to help if we can.

Oh, I forgot, take a look at the sump. They have a reputation for rusting through from the outside and can even get bad enough to weep oil through the rust! pattern made replacements are readily available although some are quite poorly made. I bought one from my local factor some years ago for the panda shown in my avatar picture and it was a poor experience with very variable gaps between the sump flanges and the bottom of the block. One bought at a later date from Shop4parts was much better and still very well priced. Our Becky was bought when she was about 7 years old and she'd just had one fitted. I wiper it down with a greasy rag at every service and it's still looking really good now some 7 years on from that. I think it depends a lot on usage and whether you take some even simple precautions, like my greasy rag, as to how long they last but "unloved" ones seem to last about 6/7 maybe 8 years up here.

 

[Blackie27]

Ian

Good morning Pugglt.

I remember my mam use to say. "Yur da's pugglt" again I am not sure many on here will get the connection to your user name. Lol

As for the timing kit there was no tensioner in the kit only the bearing.

I fully understand with regards to doing the basics check so will be keeping on top of the levels and carrying out more regular oil changes than recommended.
I have also changed the Coolant thermostat, as the engine management light came on and I saw the the temp needle drop to zero. I changed the stat the next day.
I think the previous owner had the issue and cleared the fault just before I did my OBD2 scan when I was going over the car before I bought it. When I took the rocker cover of to do the belt, f it has shown signs of overheating and is not what I would expect to see in a car with suck low millage for it's year. So sure signs of neglect
I am planning to do a long trip to visit my Son at the end of March, I will be making sure everything will be tip-top before the. Roughly 350 miles each way. I am not sure how these small cars will handle the journey. It has driven well on the trips that I have done, but for going up steep inclines.
I am not a speed freak so that will be not an issue anyways.
It did have a MOT fail 3 years ago due to the rear axel being rotten with rust, and that was replaced. I would have tackled that job myself if I had to, to be fair.
For £350 I am certain I have a wee bargain of a car. I plan to change the shocks, springs and also the brake callipers and pistons before the mot.
My very first car when I was a stupid Teen, was a dark blue Fiat 124. I got from a neighbour for £30. I drove it in farmers fields with No insurance, No MOT and no Licence. Not even a driving lesson was had. Loads of fun and laughs till we rolled it into a ditch and then it was sent to scrap car heaven. but as I said, a stupid teen. lol

Oh, I forgot, take a look at the sump. They have a reputation for rusting through from the outside and can even get bad enough to weep oil through the rust! pattern made replacements are readily available although some are quite poorly made. I bought one from my local factor some years ago for the panda shown in my avatar picture and it was a poor experience with very variable gaps between the sump flanges and the bottom of the block. One bought at a later date from Shop4parts was much better and still very well priced. Our Becky was bought when she was about 7 years old and she'd just had one fitted. I wiper it down with a greasy rag at every service and it's still looking really good now some 7 years on from that. I think it depends a lot on usage and whether you take some even simple precautions, like my greasy rag, as to how long they last but "unloved" ones seem to last about 6/7 maybe 8 years up here.

Good morning Pugglt.

I was just going out to look at a issue with the rear screen wiper jet. I have had a quick look at the sprayer itself and it is clear. I took off the front cowl to see the issue was there with a connection that had maybe popped off due to frozen pipes. I did not spend much time investigating as the cowl clips broke and I was raging. I am now raging at the bloody cost of the things. What a rip off for a penny worth of plastic.
Anyhoos can you tell me the route of the water pipe to the rear wiper. Do I have to take the interior apart to get to the fault if it's a common issue?

Thanks again

p.s With the timing belt kit I did not get a tensioner with the kit, only a bearing, belt and water-pump. Maybe that's why it was cheap.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Good morning Pugglt.

I remember my mam use to say. "Yur da's pugglt" again I am not sure many on here will get the connection to your user name. Lol

Yup. I fit that description. Daft as a brush mine tell me!

As for the timing kit there was no tensioner in the kit only the bearing.

There are, broadly speaking, two tensioner setups on these earlier engines. The earlier ones of those were just a bearing with a wee excentric plate on top which was manually adjusted to get the belt tension. The later setup - like my 2010 1.2 - was a spring loaded semi automatic tensioner which you tensioned the spring on by turning the assembly before tightening - Andy Monty has guides which cover this. If you look in the S4p online catalogue you'll see examples of both - they are not interchangeable.

I fully understand with regards to doing the basics check so will be keeping on top of the levels and carrying out more regular oil changes than recommended.
I have also changed the Coolant thermostat, as the engine management light came on and I saw the the temp needle drop to zero. I changed the stat the next day.
I think the previous owner had the issue and cleared the fault just before I did my OBD2 scan when I was going over the car before I bought it. When I took the rocker cover of to do the belt, f it has shown signs of overheating and is not what I would expect to see in a car with suck low millage for it's year. So sure signs of neglect

That would worry me wee bit if I was going to do a long journey soon, before I'd done a number of medium length journeys to check it out.

I am planning to do a long trip to visit my Son at the end of March, I will be making sure everything will be tip-top before the. Roughly 350 miles each way. I am not sure how these small cars will handle the journey. It has driven well on the trips that I have done, but for going up steep inclines.
I am not a speed freak so that will be not an issue anyways.

We've done a number of medium length journeys down into the border country in Becky, maybe a couple of hours each way, and I love driving her. Unlike my modern car, we just cruise along at around 50, maybe 60 on the open road. Very rarely overtake anyone which is very restful, but going fast enough not to inconvenience anyone. Yes, we are a bit slow on long steep hills compared with the more modern vehicles, but no slower than the commercials, It's generally not a problem. Never taken her on the motorway. Take a nice big container of coolant, maybe a 5 litre of ready mixed? when you go off to see your boy - just in case?

It did have a MOT fail 3 years ago due to the rear axel being rotten with rust, and that was replaced. I would have tackled that job myself if I had to, to be fair.
For £350 I am certain I have a wee bargain of a car. I plan to change the shocks, springs and also the brake callipers and pistons before the mot.
My very first car when I was a stupid Teen, was a dark blue Fiat 124. I got from a neighbour for £30. I drove it in farmers fields with No insurance, No MOT and no Licence. Not even a driving lesson was had. Loads of fun and laughs till we rolled it into a ditch and then it was sent to scrap car heaven. but as I said, a stupid teen. lol

Great that she's had the axle done. You might like to do some rust protection before it starts rusting.

If you're doing the front suspension be sure to do the top mounts at the same time as they crack and "relax" with age being rubber. Be careful to fit them the right way round on reassembly. Carefully check the lower arm bushes, especially the rear bush on both arms, The rubber often cracks and seperates away from the metal.

Learning to drive in a field and around estate roads is definitely the way to go! I learned that way in a 1930 Morris Minor bought from the local scrap yard in the late 1950s. Probably worth a fortune now if it had been in good nick and I'd not wrecked it charging sideways round the fields! Think my dad gave £5/10s for it and it went back to the scrappy when I wouldn't go any more.

Good morning Pugglt.

I was just going out to look at a issue with the rear screen wiper jet. I have had a quick look at the sprayer itself and it is clear. I took off the front cowl to see the issue was there with a connection that had maybe popped off due to frozen pipes. I did not spend much time investigating as the cowl clips broke and I was raging. I am now raging at the bloody cost of the things. What a rip off for a penny worth of plastic.
Anyhoos can you tell me the route of the water pipe to the rear wiper. Do I have to take the interior apart to get to the fault if it's a common issue?

Luckily I've never had a problem with any of ours so it's not something I've ever had to contend with. I seem to remember reading about the 500 pipe breaking where it transitions between the body and tailgate? So nicely pumping water into the boot! Maybe someone with knowledge of this can chip in here?

Some parts prices on almost any vehicle seem to bear very little relationship to the part itself - most annoying.

Good luck with the washer.
Jock

 

[Blackie27]

I am in Girvan south Ayrshire, and go to the West of Glasgow to visit my sister. I have done the journey three times since I bought the car, and it is approximately 130 miles round trip. The car has functioned well with no issues, except the last one when the coolant thermostat failed. The journey to my son's house will be about 360 miles each way. I will be taking it easy staying around the 55-60mph mark. I have breakdown cover as a back-up.