Technical No ideas left - engine runs hot after conversion

[MKoers]

I have replaced the engine of my seic to and 1.2 MPI 8v.
The ecu is the ECOL version without the keycode.
I have used the Original seic engine loom with the 4 injector connectors solderd onto it.

Today I finished the engine and started it.
It sounds great, nice and steady.
The radiator get warm but the fan does not kick in.
After a while the warning light at the bottom right of the panel turns on.
Not very bright but still.

I turned the engine of an shorted the wire that connects to the sensor in the radiator with a paper clip.
The fan started so I thought the sensor was faulty.
I replaced it but still no success. Fan does not kick in.
Also the paperclip get extremely hot, burned my finger pretty bad

Even with the fan running the warning light turned on when running stationary.

As the car has no gauges for temperature I connected the laptop with the MultiEcuScan. But this does not detect the ECU?

There must be something wrong somewhere as the fan won'n kick in.
Also the fact that the paperclip gets so hot indicates that there is a lot of resistance on the wire. Possibly causing the fact that the fan won't start.

I hope you guys have some ideas as I don't know where to look anymore.

 

[The Black Box]

As you say something wrong with the fan try turning by hand to see any resistance

 

[MKoers]

It runs fine.
The fan works and also goes round without resistance.
What I ment was resistance current wise.
I thought it could be the mass cables but those are bolted down tight.

 

[fingers99]

A few random ideas (more or less in order of possibility).

The fan may run, but be on its last legs. Compare resistance across the (disconnected) fan with a known good one.

No idea if this is possible, but could the fan be running backwards, that is, trying to push air through the radiator rather than pull it through?

If you're sure the earth side is OK, check the positive side.

 

[Pep0]

the not very bright red implies the switch is a variable resistor not a switch

 

[fingers99]

Good point, but bloody wierd. Can't understand how that could happen.

I'm leaning towards suspecting that the stat is jammed shut.

But if this is an MPI then there should be no switch on the radiator. SPI logic is being applied to an MPI circuit, methinks.

Something is wrong, something ain't right.............

 

[Pep0]

it is possible to run a SPI rad and fan with a MPI engine and parralled injectors?
M needs to test the light's sender with a multi meter it is wrong or broken.
Probably needs new fan as well maybe?

 

[fingers99]

It's possible, but would make no sense at all to wire up the SPI rad fan switch. MPI uses engine temp sensor and ECU to do the job.

 

[woj]

He said the ECU is IAW 8F ECOL = essentially SPI setup.

As for the problem at hand: MES does not work with this ECU, you need IAW ECU Scan 2 (free). Otherwise it sounds like a weird electrical problem.

 

[Pep0]

multi meter on sensor...

 

[MKoers]

He said the ECU is IAW 8F ECOL = essentially SPI setup.

As for the problem at hand: MES does not work with this ECU, you need IAW ECU Scan 2 (free). Otherwise it sounds like a weird electrical problem.

Thx, did a quick test and it detects the ecu.
There where some errors stored regarding shorting circuits.
But after removing them turn the key off and on the di'd not come back.
So I guess they must have been old errors.

I could'nt start the car, battery is empty...

Just to be sure, what sensor triggers the warning light?
The one in the radiator or the one in the manifold?
Or the oil sensor in the cilinderhead?

 

[woj]

The sensor in the rad only triggers the fan. The sensor in the manifold, the one on the right when you face the engine, is for the ECU, the one on the left, at the back on the head is for the dash, depending on the sensor and dash it shows either only overheat, or the actual temperature.

Shorts in the error log would indicate problems with earth connections, did you check these three times?

(Also, the fact that your battery died in the middle of the summer would suggest some problem with wiring...)

 

[Pep0]

did the donor have a gauge?

 

[MKoers]

The sensor in the rad only triggers the fan. The sensor in the manifold, the one on the right when you face the engine, is for the ECU, the one on the left, at the back on the head is for the dash, depending on the sensor and dash it shows either only overheat, or the actual temperature.

Shorts in the error log would indicate problems with earth connections, did you check these three times?

(Also, the fact that your battery died in the middle of the summer would suggest some problem with wiring...)

The car is standing still since june 2012:yum:
That's why it's empty.
As I cannot drive the car it can not charge properly.

With the old engine mounted I never had problems with the fan or anything else.
Only with the new engine, the loom is the same.
I will check the earth point once more.
There are 2 if I'm correct?

1 from battery to chassis
1 from gearbox to chassis

And a couple of earth wires from the loom itself.

 

[fingers99]

Don't just look -- remove, clean up, silicone grease or vaseline, re-tighten.

But that the paper clip gets very hot would suggest that the fan is really on its last legs.

Otherwise, thermostat and water pump (water pumps don't like being kept standing).

I'd fit a temperature guage -- it's probably the most worthwhile mod you can do to a Sei.

 

[MKoers]

Don't just look -- remove, clean up, silicone grease or vaseline, re-tighten.

But that the paper clip gets very hot would suggest that the fan is really on its last legs.

Otherwise, thermostat and water pump (water pumps don't like being kept standing).

I'd fit a temperature guage -- it's probably the most worthwhile mod you can do to a Sei.

I have made a list of things the next time I get to the car to work on it.
Probably this week.
And then it could take a while as I get a new appartment next tuesday.

 

[MKoers]

Finally I got some time to do the research.


I hooked the car up to the laptop to see what it's doing with IAW Scan.










The engine runs smooth and steady.
The IAW scan can only show the watertempature that comes from the sensor on the inlet manifold.


So I let the engine warm up.
Checking of the radiator gets hot and so on.
Everythings get warm but pretty soon the warning light on the dash turns on.
First barely and it becomes brighter while the engine runs longer.


The stupid thing is that the sensor on the inlet says it's 55 degrees celcius.
So I let the engine running.
Finaly the fan turns on to cool down the coolant.
At that point the sensor detects 73 degrees Celsius.
So the engine is'nt running to hot.


I switched the sesonr on the back of the cilinderhead that causes the light to turn on with another one but the problem still exists.


I'm 100% certain that the gasket is mounted correctly so the channels are not blocked.


Is there a way to test the circuit of the sensor?
Or the a check to see if it functions correctly?

 

[fingers99]

The guage light is just a warning light. Strange that it's coming on early, but I'd fit a gauge. In the meantime, IAW scan will be more trustworthy.

You could always test the switches in a pan of water, see when they trigger. (Cheap infra red thermometer would be handy).

 

[NUGGY]

I fitted a temp sender into my cylinder head in place of the warning switch and the light comes on gradually, and shorting a paper clip across will cause it to get very hot as the fan draws a decent amount of current turning the paper clip into a heater element

 

[cc1]

I think there may be sensor/wiring/Ecu incompatibility issues?

1) Check the resistance characteristics of the Seicento and 1242 sensors are the same.
2) Is the ECOL Ecu designed to interface with a display controller within the 1242 instrument panel which controls a temp gauge and light?

I would expect a temp warning light to toggle on/off between the two set parameters, and not run linear like a gauge.
On the Seicento MPI Ecu's, the temp warning signal from them is a digital 0v out at overheat. Other model Ecu's should have an analogue out put to drive a gauge.
The confusing bit is the IAW Scan temp readings though, which would suggest the wrong sensor. If the rad fan turns on, being controlled by a thermal switch in the rad, then the engine temp is about 90+Deg.
I would have thought that all the temp sensors have the same characteristics for measuring an engines temp range though?