im Axle Specialists

General Newbie with an idea

Currently reading:
General Newbie with an idea

A

AmbitiousButRubbish

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2022
Messages
56
Points
60
Location
North Wales
Hi guys, firstly I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this, if not then please move it, thanks!
Im new to the forum, and having failed to decide between a panda 4x4 and a panda 100hp, I had an idea to combind the two, removing the flaws of each.
The 100hp is fast enough, but it spins its wheels alot in the wet and the suspensin is a bit too firm, everything else is excellent. The panda 4x4 is slow. Like really slow. But it is excellent all the time apart from being slow and underpowered. Ive got a fast car, so I'm not after a road rocket, just something thats exactly like a panda 4x4 only with enough power to keep up with traffic on steep hills etc.
My two ideas are: Buy both pandas and put the 1.4 (100hp) engine in the 4x4. Does anyone know if the 6 speed gearbox can be used? Or is the 5 speed of the 4x4 part of the AWD system? Added benefit of getting the bigger brakes and nicer interior from the 100hp, maybe the wider arches too?
Alternative idea: Buy a panda 4x4 1.3 diesel and modify to make more power.
If anyone has any thoughts on this, Ide love to hear them! Also if anyone has already tried this (the 1.4 4x4 or tuning the 1.3 diesel) do let me know!
 
looking at the gearbox pictures it seems that the 4x4 or FWD are having the same bolt pattern. So fitting a different engine to the 4x4 gearbox should not be a problem. I think the problem lies in the software. You need to find out if the 4x4 system is software controlled or just a simple mechanical 4x4. And if it is software controlled you need to find out if there is a separated ECU for it. If not and it is controlled by the main ECU then you need to see if you can flash/program/tune that ECU so it gives the new engine the correct information.
 
The 1.4 engine may well fit the 4x4 gearbox. They "look" the same though I've never tried.

The 90bhp Grande Punto used a six speed gearbox. Knowing how Fiat don't invent new wheels, it's probably the same as the 100HP box with a different final drive ratio. But there's wheel sizes to consider. Again, you'd be on your own confirming it fits and it may well be completely different. Obviously that's only 2WD.

The 1.3 MJ can be mapped to over 100bhp but clutch and transmission are the weak point. Those used in Opels/Vauxhauls have a different transmission.
 
From memory the 4x4 system is a mechanical viscous coupling without any computers.
For me its vital that its reliable and strong, with economy taking a back seat to durability, but performance takes priority over that. (but not to the extent that its a 200hp rocket that occasionally blows up and gets 30mpg)
Can anyone comment on the gear ratios of the boxes? I know that the 4x4 has a low 1st gear, and the 100ph has an extra gear, so which has the lowest 1st gear? Thanks!
 
Gear ratios are not published on anything Google can find so you would have to find the various gear boxes and count the rotations in each gear to compare.
 
AmbitiousButRubbish said:
How much power would it make with an intercooler, turbo, injectors etc? When will the gearbox or other components break? Thanks!
Click to expand...
Mine started with a stage 1 remap that took it up to around 90hp.

Since then among other things it's had a larger turbo, uprated injectors, straight through stainless exhaust, larger intercooler, and remap to suit. Running around 135hp.

Also fitted a stage 3 clutch, lightened flywheel. Gearbox is original, but had it rebuilt and upgraded internally as even a standard remap takes it close to its limit.

Also remember with extra power the rest of the car needs upgrading as well.

I've replaced the suspension completely, but only lowered 15mm, don't want a harsh ride. Brakes upgraded, 16" alloys. Uprated radiator and new water pump.

And obviously before starting anything, make sure you can insure it....for me it's less than £250/year with a specialist insurer.
 
Advice is much apprecited. I think I'll only get the diesel if its concluded that the petrol idea wont work, as I think it will be chapes (as the 1.3 4x4 only came in the panda cross, and theyre a fair bit more than the 4x4, and im told the parts are more expensive too. However if one comes up at a decent price, it would be rude not to
Also are the power figures youve quoted at the wheels or at the crank? Thanks!
 
Power figures will be quoted at the crank as that always looks better. Generally they assume 15% is lost in the transmission, but I think that's excessive. If true, a hard-driven 100HP gearbox would be throwing out 15 bhp (11kw) as heat. It gets nowhere close to hot enough to be shifting that much heat.

I suspect they dyno test the car, then add 15% to the wheel figures as assumed losses. It's another way to massage the figures.

The diesel is a great engine but the cam chain is their achilles heel. They are OK to 100K miles but will fail without warning. Changing the chain kit at 80K is sensible. There are vids on You Tube showing how.
 
Hi.
If you need any help with insurance for this type of conversion then please feel free to give us a try.
I had a Panda 100HP for 6 years. Great car and regret selling it to this day.
Regards,
Dan.
 
Panda 100HP is one of the best cars ever produced but so may ruined by pointless mods that as fa as I have experienced are useless and no improvement ,43MPG worst case. Astonishing handling steering and brakes and very reliable. But woe is you if it snows as its also the worst car by a very large margin I have ever experienced in snow. You WILL get stuck. 4x4 is very very different and amazing in bad conditions. Dlesel goes OK and uses little fuel. FInd a good 100HP and experience something amazing - you'll need 3-5K for a really good one!!!. Get a 4x4 when your getting old like me!
 
The Panda Nut said:
Panda 100HP is one of the best cars ever produced but so may ruined by pointless mods that as fa as I have experienced are useless and no improvement ,43MPG worst case. Astonishing handling steering and brakes and very reliable. But woe is you if it snows as its also the worst car by a very large margin I have ever experienced in snow. You WILL get stuck. 4x4 is very very different and amazing in bad conditions. Dlesel goes OK and uses little fuel. FInd a good 100HP and experience something amazing - you'll need 3-5K for a really good one!!!. Get a 4x4 when your getting old like me!
Click to expand...
Dont need a rocket. Very bad roads, need more suspension travel than a 100hp, and probably a bigger tyre. Not too worried about snow, but its wet most of the year, and having owned a fwd ibiza with around 100hp, its crap. Also my ibiza had the 17" rims with 215 40 R 17 tyres and the "sporty" suspension so the ride was a little too hard, and although the car was standard, it scrapped occasionally on bumps, so I dont think the panda 100hp is suitable. I wouldnt want any less power than my ibiza had, so the 4x4 isnt powerful enough as standard
 
A3jeroen said:
A 100HP on 185/60 14" wintertires is not bad at all in snow.
We haven't had any snow here yet, but I expect the 170HP Abarth to be Ok too on 185/55 15" wintertyres.

gr J
Click to expand...

Agreed, it's a light car so would be fine in snow. My 3rd best snow car (and the best without 4x4) was a Citroen Xsara (not Picasso, I only liked Easter eggs at Easter) - because the panels were paper thin and interior was made out of the same stuff as MacDonalds toys it was a very light car, so it could skip over snow deep enough to leave the Germans stranded.
 
AmbitiousButRubbish said:
Anyone done an EV conversion?
Click to expand...
Fiat did one with the first Panda and did a hydrogen cell version of the 169 - anything is possible with enough time and money.

Then there is this crowd:
eauto.si

Fiat Panda 4x4 Electric -

End of 2017 saw a new car converted by Metron: first 4×4 all terain Fiad Panda Cross. End goal is to make an amphibia capable of passing water covered areas. It has a 50 kW PM motor, 30 kWh battery (just 120 kg), 10 kW 3 phase charger on board, AC (Nissens compressor), electric winchRead More
eauto.si
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Tuning Newbie with an idea
3 4 5
Replies
93
Views
5K
DaveMcT
D
C
Technical Panda with Alexa Car
Replies
5
Views
378
CP
C
onemanmade
Styling Looking for front seat in yellow and grey fabric with the 5 yellow squares please
Replies
1
Views
88
koalar
koalar
K
Technical Problem with my Panda 1.2 active
Replies
9
Views
446
koalar
koalar
Tasagore
Tuning Replace original radio with a Android device, any advice?
Replies
6
Views
794
koalar
koalar
Back
Top