General New Panda Twinair Dualogic - production stopped?

[Super Uwe]

Just got this email... -- so, as much as we want the Panda, I'm seriously thinking of cancelling our order: as we need a new car earlier than November; and there's no guarantee, even then, of course, that we'll ever get ours....

Dear Mr Ward... Re: Fiat Panda Thank you for contacting Fiat Group Autmobiles UK Ltd. Please be advised all production has now stopped on the new Fiat Panda Dualogic transmission due to technical issues. At this moment we do not have any confirmed dates as to when the production may commence other than an estimation of mid to end of November 2012. Please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience this may cause. Should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Relations team on 00800 3428 0000, choosing option 4. Yours sincerely... Customer Relations on behalf of Fiat Group Automobiles UK Ltd​

As I'm currently lying in bed, with a very sore kidney, I am not happy; and don't know how I'm supposed to get out there and test-drive possible replacements (none of which come close to the Panda, of course...).

FIAT's customer service s*cks, I'm afraid.... :shakehead:

That is bad, bad news.

I just don't understand what the problem is? I think you are owed more of an explanation than just "technical issues", as far as we know the same unit in the 500 is being built without any problems so there has to be something seriously wrong IMO.

It's hard to say whether you should cancel or not - I know that the TwinAir made such a good impression and it's the car you want. I think the only thing you can do is give CS a call and then follow it up with a letter outlining what you want otherwise you will cancel. Of course there are limits as to what they can do (not their fault it isn't being built), but they can certainly do something about improving communication regarding the issue.

I'd also recommend starting a thread on the 500 page linking to this one and seeing if anyone has heard anything about the issues with the Panda. They are pretty knowledgeable and there are of course one or two people who have that unit in their 500 as well.

 

[deeyup]

homeward .How good is your dealer?

Ask to borrow a loan car until yours comes in. Maybe Fiat would be willing to send a fleet car down for you?
You can but ask.

 

[homeward]

That is bad, bad news.

I just don't understand what the problem is? I think you are owed more of an explanation than just "technical issues", as far as we know the same unit in the 500 is being built without any problems so there has to be something seriously wrong IMO.

It's hard to say whether you should cancel or not - I know that the TwinAir made such a good impression and it's the car you want. I think the only thing you can do is give CS a call and then follow it up with a letter outlining what you want otherwise you will cancel. Of course there are limits as to what they can do (not their fault it isn't being built), but they can certainly do something about improving communication regarding the issue.

I'd also recommend starting a thread on the 500 page linking to this one and seeing if anyone has heard anything about the issues with the Panda. They are pretty knowledgeable and there are of course one or two people who have that unit in their 500 as well.

That last idea (as are the others!) is a good'n; and I shall go and do that, momentarily....

I've just spoken to the sales manager at our dealer -- and they're even more in the dark than we are (which he didn't seem very happy about...): their MD having also ordered a TwinAir Dualogic Panda, promised for week 43. He even managed to go into the logistics system, in the last few days, and change the colour! (Which, of course, means that the order is still 'live', and slated for production.) I can't imagine he will be a happy bunny....

Anyhoo: I have been asked by him to forward on the email -- which I have -- and he's going to find out what he can. He obviously believes that this is something the customer shouldn't have to do themselves.... :bang:

Bit stumped at the moment: my anger (and pain) are clouding my judgment a little. However, I think your post is the way to go.... -- so thank you!

 

[homeward]

homeward .How good is your dealer?

Ask to borrow a loan car until yours comes in. Maybe Fiat would be willing to send a fleet car down for you?
You can but ask.

Another fantastic suggestion! Thank you...!

It'll have to be an automatic: but I don't suppose that will cause them any additional grief....

 

[Ingvarr]

possible replacements (none of which come close to the Panda, of course...).

You can always get something like previous gen Panda. Its not a new one, true, but Eleganza trim with Dualogic is still very decent. Not to mention that you could save a lot of money this way. When I was looking, I've seen approved used (still on the warranty) about 1-year old Panda Eleganza Dualogic for about 6.7-7K.
Though eventually I've just thought "off with small size", and bought an Auris

 

[homeward]

You can always get something like previous gen Panda. Its not a new one, true, but Eleganza trim with Dualogic is still very decent. Not to mention that you could save a lot of money this way. When I was looking, I've seen approved used (still on the warranty) about 1-year old Panda Eleganza Dualogic for about 6.7-7K.

Was looking on AutoTrader, the other day... -- and I seriously think this is where we're heading.... Thank you!

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

about 1-year old Panda Eleganza Dualogic for about 6.7-7K.

They stopped the Dualogic box in the mk3's around 2 years ago though.

 

[homeward]

They stopped the Dualogic box in the mk3's around 2 years ago though.

B*gg*r. I wondered why all my AutoTrader searches were coming up so old...

Still tempted, though...! :devil:

PS: Any recommendations on engine? I love the 1.2 in my Punto...!

 

[Ingvarr]

They stopped the Dualogic box in the mk3's around 2 years ago though.

Ah, yeah, maybe you right and it was actually 2 years. Only thing I remembered for sure it was still safely under warranty and had a "new" (big) door mirrors.

Here for example, 60 plate with very low mileage.
http://usedcars.fiat.co.uk/vehicle.aspx?wflw=se_na_ve_vi&ctr=2288030&vhl=602619059&srcmdc=se_na_re_

As for engine only option is 1.2. Which is not as powerful as TA, but more economical.

 

[homeward]

Here for example, 60 plate with very low mileage...

As for engine only option is 1.2. Which is not as powerful as TA, but more economical.

Gosh! That's low mileage!

Did they only use the 8v engine? If so, I wonder why... -- reliability; ease of maintenance...?

PS: Just looked on AutoTrader, and they're as rare as hen's teeth, round here. Nearest is Coventry (22 miles, as the crow flies...); second nearest, Watford (61). Cor...

 

[Ingvarr]

Did they only use the 8v engine? If so, I wonder why... -- reliability; ease of maintenance...?

As far as it goes with small cars - engine compartment space most likely. Has to use small-ish engine to afford more space taken by auto gearbox. That's the reason most of smallest cars don't get best drivetrain features like dual-clutch gearboxes or automatic+diesels... For example, just for having 6th gear in Panda 100hp they had to quite severly limit the turning circle (same reason turning circle is so big in 500, narrower wheel arches). Also I am pretty sure that's the reason TA (was?) only option to pair with Dualogic in 2012 Panda.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

:yeahthat:

 

[homeward]

PS: Just looked on AutoTrader, and they're as rare as hen's teeth, round here. Nearest is Coventry...

...and we're test-driving it on Saturday morning!

Just sent the following (heavily redacted) email to my dealer... -- with a heavy, heavy heart...:

After talking it through, we'd like to cancel the order for the Panda, please. As we are cancelling it due to the technical problems with the Dualogic/TwinAir combination -- not to mention FIAT UK's total lack of help with regards to sorting this out... -- we obviously would like our deposit... back, please, as soon as possible.

We really are sorry to do this... -- and, I must admit, extremely disappointed. I will therefore be contacting FIAT Customer Care again, to let them know.

As I said on the phone, however, this is no way reflects on the outstanding customer service we have received from [our dealer].​

Here -- for those interested -- is the Panda Mk3 under consideration. Comments welcomed...!

PS: The two valuation apps I have on my iPad say that dealer price should either be £4,400 or £5,372 (the latter from What Car?). If people have any views on this, then they would be extremely welcomed...!

 

[Ingvarr]

Price looks fair. But personally I wouldn't go for this one for two reasons:
- Old style (small) mirrors. Over time I have pretty much solidified my opinion that original 2003 Panda mirrors were somewhat of safety hazard. Though new mirrors could be retrofit fairly easily as far as I know
- Steering wheel without audio controls, also looks like plastic one? This actually a bit strange, I thought leather steering wheel was default for Eleganza. Not economical to retrofit, though putting good DIY leather cover on is always an option...

 

[homeward]

Price looks fair. But personally I wouldn't go for this one for two reasons:
- Old style (small) mirrors. Over time I have pretty much solidified my opinion that original 2003 Panda mirrors were somewhat of safety hazard. Though new mirrors could be retrofit fairly easily as far as I know
- Steering wheel without audio controls, also looks like plastic one? This actually a bit strange, I thought leather steering wheel was default for Eleganza. Not economical to retrofit, though putting good DIY leather cover on is always an option...

Thanks for this!

Not that worried about the leather (even though I've just bought a Sporting one for my Punto...!) -- and we would have had to order this as an option on the Mk4, anyway (which we had...) -- but interested in your comments re the mirrors.

We were always complaining about the Clio (that our Punto has just replaced) that it had small mirrors: so 'upgrading' to the larger ones would definitely be on our wish-list. [Note to self: Must try and find out how much these cost -- and if it is possible (as they're electric/heated...) -- so I can haggle....]

The thing is, we're really struggling to find a late Dualogic one anywhere near -- especially in Eleganza spec... (as we're really missing having air-con in the Punto...). Not that I want to sound desparate... -- just that (1) we're struggling with only having one car (living in the middle of nowhere...); and (2) with being quite ill, at the moment, I don't want to be slogging round too many places looking at too many cars....

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

- Steering wheel without audio controls, also looks like plastic one? This actually a bit strange, I thought leather steering wheel was default for Eleganza.

Just like 99.9% of Panda's as only very few limited editions came with them as standard.

Same in regards to the leather wheel also - never standard on the Eleganza

 

[Elisetype25]

I contacted Fiat Customer Care a couple of weeks ago (as the dealers still knew nothing) who initially stated a decision was due late November if RHD production was going ahead. Got a phone call yesterday to say the decision had been brought forward and they could confirm dualogics were now available for factory order.

Hoping to get something sorted in the next couple of weeks, watch this space.

Regards, Neil
PS. Also asked about the avaialbility of the sliding rear seat and Low Speed Collision Mitigation system as options. Still waiting on an answer on this.

 

[theatre500]

Hi Everybody,

Today I've spoken with Fiat dealer about my interest in purchasing one. I was interested in dualogic transmission with TwinAir, hence wanted to test drive it first.

But the dealer told me that they don't carry any such demonstrators, and this is primarly because TwinAir Dualogic New Panda currently is not in production - due to some problems with it (?). He said they don't even know when (if) production will be resumed.

At same time he claimed that Fiat 500 TwinAir dualogic has no such problems at all.

Does anybody know anything more about this?

A few years late ... but let me tell you all about the Fiat500 TwinAir Dualogic. I had one, brand new straight from the factory. MJ62 DYA. Ran perfectly for about three years, and then, the car kept stalling, twice on the same roundabout which could have killed me my partner and my dog. [Remembering the same problem with my original square Fiat Panda in the 1990s. Fiat wanted to strip the gearbox out of warranty and allege they have not had this problem before. Bull ****, and Fiat know it. We got rid of the car immediately as it proved to be too dangerous ... and later, Fiat discontinued this gearbox. I wonder why. Lost a lot of money on the car which should have lasted us over ten years. It took Fiat about 3 to 4 years to "redevelop" this gearbox which was much better on the Fiat500 X but we found the car boring and now drive a VW Caddy Max Diesel Automatic. Fiat must be accountable for this doe doe they produced. Of course it never went into the Fiat Panda ... and they knew exactly why. Oh, and thanks Boris for removing the Fiat500 TwinAir from the free congestion charges in London when you were Lord Mayor. What an utter disgrace. I notice the Fiat had changed hands many times over the years (public search) which tells another story for another night. ...

 

[varesecrazy]

The 1990's duologics were released too early

The 80's variant in the strada was ok

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

A few years late ... but let me tell you all about the Fiat500 TwinAir Dualogic. I had one, brand new straight from the factory. MJ62 DYA. Ran perfectly for about three years, and then, the car kept stalling, twice on the same roundabout which could have killed me my partner and my dog. [Remembering the same problem with my original square Fiat Panda in the 1990s. Fiat wanted to strip the gearbox out of warranty and allege they have not had this problem before. Bull ****, and Fiat know it. We got rid of the car immediately as it proved to be too dangerous ... and later, Fiat discontinued this gearbox. I wonder why. Lost a lot of money on the car which should have lasted us over ten years. It took Fiat about 3 to 4 years to "redevelop" this gearbox which was much better on the Fiat500 X but we found the car boring and now drive a VW Caddy Max Diesel Automatic. Fiat must be accountable for this doe doe they produced. Of course it never went into the Fiat Panda ... and they knew exactly why. Oh, and thanks Boris for removing the Fiat500 TwinAir from the free congestion charges in London when you were Lord Mayor. What an utter disgrace. I notice the Fiat had changed hands many times over the years (public search) which tells another story for another night. ...

I think you need to fact check a lot of your info. It was a completely different gearbox in the Mk2 Panda (it was a CVT box) to the dualogic in the Mk3&4.

Yes that can have issue, but a lot don’t. You only hear of the problems, and lots of manual boxes have failures also!