Technical New owner multipla woes

[stromasud]

Hello everybody
I've just bought my first multipla, and every thing was peachy untill about 300 miles from where i bought it when the gearbox was getting a bit stiff to opperate. When finaly getting home the gears were crunching!
I gave the keys to my wife the next day and much the same happened, but worse still, it wouldnt go into any gear!
So please, someone hellp mee
Maybe its the clutch but i thought it would have been changed at 99000 miles? or maybe it that clutch cylinder spring that i've been hearing about?
Anyway ,who knows so c ya.
Please tell me i havna bought a duffer

 

[combwork]

Hello everybody
I've just bought my first multipla, and every thing was peachy untill about 300 miles from where i bought it when the gearbox was getting a bit stiff to opperate. When finaly getting home the gears were crunching!
I gave the keys to my wife the next day and much the same happened, but worse still, it wouldnt go into any gear!
So please, someone hellp mee
Maybe its the clutch but i thought it would have been changed at 99000 miles? or maybe it that clutch cylinder spring that i've been hearing about?
Anyway ,who knows so c ya.
Please tell me i havna bought a duffer

Does the clutch pedal feel dead; has to be pushed almost to the floor before it feels as if its coming under load? With the engine off, if you put it in 1st gear with the clutch pedal down, does it start OK or lurch forward, even very slightly, when the starter motor operates? If either of the above, it indicates that the clutch plate is not fully clearing. Multiplas didn't use a clutch cable, instead they use a hydraulic line between the pedal and the clutch and as far as I know, you can't adjust clearance on the thing. A leak at the master cylinder (pedal), slave cylinder (clutch housing) or the hydraulic line between the two could cause what you describe and the fact that it came on as you drove the car does indicate a leak. You could try pumping he clutch pedal; if it gradually improves this points almost certainly to a leak.

Is it a diy job? I know some people on this board have serviced clutches successfully but I've no idea what's involved. Hopefully someone will chime in who does, but at least a faulty clutch should be less expensive to fix than a faulty gearbox. Good Luck.................................. Jim.

 

[stromasud]

Cheers Jim i'le give it a bash.
I tried pumping the clutch like mad but no it made no differance im afraid.
I can only engage a gear while the engine is switched off, and then when i start up with the clutch pedal depressed, it still crawls forward! To me it does feel like the slave cylinder is failing so i'le just nip out with a torch for a quick look and try to find the bleedin thing.
Thanks again ,i'le let you know how i get on.

 

[multipete]

what does the clutch pedal feel like.it feels normal,you probably need a clutch.
If it feels very spongy or loose/easy to press,then you have air in the system or an other type of fault on the hydraulic system.Be the good news ,it is not a gear box problem from what you describe.

 

[stromasud]

Thanks multipete,
Yeah the clutch does feel a little vague but not to bad, so hopefully thats what it is.
Where the hell is the clutch resovoire on this car? or is it all fed from the same one as the brakes? I had a quick look with the torch a wee while ago but its to bleeding cold outside .brrrrr.
I've book it into a local garage tomorow,and the mechanic owns a multipla
so hopefully it wont be anything to expensive.

 

[stromasud]

Oh i nearly forgot, i thought that when the clutch goes on a car then it would start to slip? But maybe the mechanics on this car are as wierd as its looks

 

[stromasud]

Oh lordy!!
The garage quoted me £750!! They said that the main fiat dealership suggest that they should replace the flywheel when a new clutch is fitted!
Is this normal practice for a worn clutch?
Are Fiat flywheels softer than your average flywheel?
Sod it ,think i'le have a crack at it myself, how hard can it be?
Anyone got any advice hmmm?

 

[combwork]

Oh lordy!!
The garage quoted me £750!! They said that the main fiat dealership suggest that they should replace the flywheel when a new clutch is fitted!
Is this normal practice for a worn clutch?
Are Fiat flywheels softer than your average flywheel?
Sod it ,think i'le have a crack at it myself, how hard can it be?
Anyone got any advice hmmm?[/quote]


I've heard Multipla flywheels variously described as a `twin flywheel', `composite flywheel' or `rubber bonded flywheel'. I've not stripped one yet but I'm told by those who have that it's two parts, joined together by some kind of rubber based compound, the idea being that it can be relatively light but still helps damp engine vibrations. Effectively it's become a service item with a finite life. Having said that, I've heard of JTD engines running for several hundred thousand miles on the same flywheel......

An awful lot of this is "I've heard that.......", maybe I've heard wrong but again, what I've been told is that symptoms of imminent failure can be increased vibration, and that when it fails you lose drive; like revving the engine in neutral. A friend of mine with a 110 ELX had his flywheel break up not that long after he'd had a new clutch fitted. Apparently he wasn't happy.......... Look at it this way; if the garage will do a complete clutch and flywheel change for £750, it's not a bad deal, especially if you get them to overhaul the hydraulics first, just to see it that fixes it.

 

[stromasud]

thanks Combwork
Yeah i suppose £750 aint to bad realy but im a poor electrician from the highlands and cant afford such luxuries at the moment
But the good news is that i've changed a few clutches over the years and altho its been a few years since i've done one, it cant be that different...can it?
As for the flywheel,,,is there going to be some kind of obvious wear to look for? as i said the car has done 99000 miles but i hear theres been some "starship milages" using these jtd engines.
Anyway im of to ask my neighbor if i can use his empty garage for a few days, well its not realy a garage, more of an old farm building with no power. But at least its some shelter from this bleeding weather
keep you all informed of my impending disasters. Taraa .Peter...

 

[combwork]

thanks Combwork
Yeah i suppose £750 aint to bad realy but im a poor electrician from the highlands and cant afford such luxuries at the moment

Highlands isn't too far from where I live (Kirriemuir), or where a much more knowledgeable chap name of Dave lives; just a few miles from me. It was Dave's flywheel that dismantled itself. He's done a fair bit of work on his own car but as far a I know, a garage did the clutch change and then replaced the flywheel:bang:

 

[stromasud]

Hello again folks
Yes im afraid the Highlands are not such a great place to be this evening as its lashing down with rain (not great for changing clutches) but my nieghbor (he's great coz he's let me use his garage) said help myself to his sheds. So after making up some temp lighting i've set about my multipla with some spanners and sockets and so far have removed the battery and various plastic pipes and also the main hub nuts. But now im knackered so im having an early night (Or the wife will not be pleased)
Tomorrow i will remove the driveshafts and gearlinkage and then attempt to remove the gearbox without to mch swearing :slayer:
p.s. I live near Wick where if its not pi##ing of rain then its howling a friking gale
p.p.s. After the multipla, ive got to fix my alfasud
God this Bushmills tastes good!
Taraa.

 

[combwork]

God this Bushmills tastes good!
Taraa.[/quote]

Rain on one side of the window, open fire and a glass of whiskey on the other. All you can add is good music from a classic sound system

 

[djmuir]

My clutch 'went' at about 60000 miles-all of a sudden no pedal feel ! . I was able to drive it home, starting it in gear and then changing gear clutchless. Local garage changed the clutch [clutch kit(realease bearing , drive plate and pressure plate )=~£200] + £250 to do the job.

9000 miles later, no drive at all-pedal felt normal- back into garage-dual mass flywheel (lessens judder) had become two independently rotating parts!! £250 for new flywheel + another £250 for garage to take the gearbox etc. out again!!

I'd guess that the flywheel looks perfect (bonding is inside and uncheckable) until it isn't. Apparently some Alfas (higher power output) can wreck them in 20,000 depending on how they're driven.

Difficult decision to make, but apparently on some vehicles (like Mercedes Sprinter vans) the clutches are such a bastard to do that garages automatically change the dual mass flywheel at the same time.
As Jim says , I was far from happy at the time but, hey ho, it's fine again!

 

[stromasud]

Aaaaaaaaaaggggghhhhhhhh :bang:
These multipla clutches are pure bastards to change ritenough
Things have obviously changed since the last time i did one! Jeez i must buy some decent tools on monday; like some allen key sockets for the drive shafts . And when did seperating the lower ball joint become such a ****!!
Lord i thought i would have removed the gearbox by now, HA!,im not even near
Hmm, i wonder if i've got any bushmills left?

 

[stromasud]

Hi folks
Horrah for ebay; i got my flywheel for £130! assuming its a new one.
The gearbox is just about ready to come off ,appart from the offside driveshaft (Does this need to come off?)(i damaged the last allen bolt!!).

Oh, and just as yourself "djmuir" i also had to drive it home just using the gears(no clutch) Thats when the depression set in
So hopefully by tomorrow night i'le have the dammed thing off.
Tarrah for now.

 

[JTDman]

Replaced mine , well tried but the re manufatured clutch plate was slightly oversized (it was sunday) so we ground the diameter down a touch to get it back together and it would go in gear when the engine was off but not when running.:bang:

Any way we had nothing to loose at this point so slammed it into 4th with the engine off started it up and burned the fecker till it fitted :slayer:
But hey ive got an oe clutch kit off the bay of dreams for £50 so im on the lookout for a flywheel and ill start again.

Good luck with it and although we removed the offside driveshaft i dont think it was needed in the end.

P.s if you have not seen a dual mass flywheel before there is some movement in them , it shocked us when we could easily move it an inch either way.

 

[djmuir]

offside driveshaft doesn't need to come off!

 

[stromasud]

Well jtdman, my advice to you is to check out "the bay of dreams" for a "fiat flywheel". I was typing in "multipla flywheel" but there was no results
Anyway, thanks for the advice lads, its all good stuff; keep it coming

Must dash....Its time to bruise my knuckles some more...and swear a lot....

 

[stromasud]

Hey you guys
Are you sure the offside shaft doesnt have to come off ? Cause the gearbox is hard to the chassis and theres still something holding it there
How does the shaft come free from the bearing housing in the middle? I've undone 3 10mm bolts from the housing and a plate has become undone; or do i have to slacken off the whole housing?
Oh bugger! i've run out of whisky

 

[malnik]

Just read this one...sounds to me exactly like mine...and it was that spring in the master cylinder. Unles the clutch is slippin it aint the clutch! But now you got it out....best keep going!!! Mal