New car advice...

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New car advice...

Si - Punto

Supercharger whine :)
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Evening all,

As some of you may already know I was recently very close to part exchanging the GP for a Panda 100HP. After taking one for a test drive I was thoroughly impress with how much fun it was to drive based on cost however I felt that for me it would be more of a daily driver making room for a weekend car sat at home. Unfortunately I can’t afford to have more than one car so I’ve got to put all of my eggs in one basket so to speak.

With this in mind I have decided that a ‘hot hatch’ will be more suited to my needs since my annual mileage has dropped to under 10k miles a year.

Come February I turn 22, I will have had the GP for a year, my insurance is up for renewal and all being well I will have 3 years NCB at my disposal. So February is the time but I need help in deciding the car.

The criteria are a hatchback because size isn’t a problem due to me rarely carrying more than 1 passenger therefore more space is just unnecessary weight. A 0-60 time of circa 7 seconds and the ability to cruise at 80mph on the motorway while retaining composer and enough power to overtake in a split second. Handling must be precise and the chassis must be nimble with the ability to out-run most average cars and bahn cruisers around the twisties.

Insurance must not exceed group 17 (lower would be better but IG17 is manageable). Tax must be in the region of £200/year (so no £300/400/year tax band performance cars). Servicing costs can’t be much higher than the GP as I would say circa £150 (minor) and £300 (major) is reasonable for servicing and finally it must be able to average 30+mpg without too much effort. I fully accept that a hot hatch isn’t about economy but the car has to have the ability to break 30mpg if taken easy around town or cruising long distance motorways/duel carriageways.

The car must be as new as possible for my budget with as low mileage as possible - I’m capping it at no older than 2002 and no higher mileage than 60k miles, obviously the newer/lower mileage as possible, the better.

As I will be selling a 2 year old car for one that is most probably going to be out of warranty reliability is an important factor. I know all cars have their problems but I need something that I can trust on a daily basis.

The budget is mainly based on whatever I can sell the GP for in the private market +/- a bit of cash from my savings so I want to cap the search at circa £7k.

Right so onto the cars, joint top of my list and both scoring a theoretical 9.5/10 are the RenaultSport Clio 182 (with both Cup packs) and the Gen1 Mini Cooper S (with Chilli pack).

My budget will stretch to a low mileage (sub 30k) 182 with both Cup packs on a 05/55 plate where as the Cooper S would probably be a 52/03 plate example with approximately 40/50k on the clock and the Chilli pack. Both cars have huge followings and both get very good reviews from the people who know their stuff (Evo mag, Performance Car mag, etc). Both have the ability to average above 30mpg (the Clio seems to do this a bit easier) and both are apparently pretty well screwed together (apart from your usual squeaks and rattles).

I’ve had a bad experience with Clio reliability in the past which makes me somewhat weary but this was an old mk1 Clio with high mileage and I would image Renault screw them together a bit better these days (at least I’d hope). As for the Mini, it carries with it the BMW tag although people say that they’re prone to rattles and less than expected build quality.

Overall the Mini apparently only suffers from the odd electrical glitch and quick wearing suspension components whereas reports of the Clio mainly list electrical glitches with sensors and air flow metre issues on cold start-ups.

The Clio and the Mini pretty much tick all of the boxes but I’m fully aware that there are other (possibly better) hot hatches that tick most of my criteria such as the EP3 Honda Civic Type R however word of mouth is that tax costs and fuel economy fall a fair bit outside of my requirements.

At the lower end of the scale are things like the Fiat Panda 100HP and Suzuki Swift Sport but I don’t think either of these cars would last long with me before I felt the need to eek more power or sharper handling out of them. In between these two and the proper hot hatches falls the Ford Fiesta ST150 which I highly considered as the GP’s replacement but I felt the performance and fuel economy didn’t represent the car’s lack of ability (compared to its competitors) and by the time you’ve tuned the performance and handling to compete with the 182/Cooper S cost of parts/insurance increase would surpass the initial insurance outlay for the Clio or the Mini.

...........

Ok so I’ve had my say (sorry for the essay) but now I need your opinions, reviews if you’ve test driven any of the above and furthermore any alternatives that I might have overlooked.

I look forward to your input.

Thanks all,

Si
 
I dont care about its MPG at all since i dont do high milage anymore but it is pretty bad!

The handling on it is superb, its amazing the way it handles yet still deals with ruff roads with out crashing and thuding about like a grande punto sporting does is brilliant! The build quality is a lot better than the puntos, they do tend to have a few rattles but most of its down to the firmer ride vibrating things loose and its very easy to tighten the things back up to stop it.. .

The engine is great, the noise is fantastic, the exhuast sounds great as standard! The only major downside is the supercharged engine being a bit thirsty! Like i say ive just averaged 20mpg on the tank just gone in mine, which is a huge difference to the 46 to 52 i could achieve out of the grande punto.. .

But yeah its a great car, i love it already and its certainly the best car ive owned and driven (other than the lambo gallardo i drove :p)
 
Custard, I do love the look of the RS Megane 225 but non-Cup spec examples with 40k+ on the clock start at circa £7k and Cup spec examples with 60k+ on the clock start at circa £8k.

Plus as previously mentioned space isn't a big issue so anything bigger than a supermini is a disadvantage to me due to excess weight requiring more power to achieve the same performance and therefore resulting in higher fuel consumption :eek:

As I said fuel econemy isn't top priority, if it was I would be staying with a diesel (much to my displeasure) but it would be desirable if it can achieve in excess of 30mpg. Due to the nature of my mileage most of my journies comprise short (2.5mile) trips through town to work meaning that the engine doesnt get up to temp and therefore fuel econemy doesn't justify the sacrifice of owning a diesel (as econemy was my main reason for buying the GP).

Jason, you'll have to take me out in it sometime soon because it's been a long time since I've experienced a Cooper S. I need to see if it's as good as I remember :D

(other than the lambo gallardo i drove :p)

P.S Mine was a Ferrari 360 :slayer:
 
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I know a few folk who have/had Clio Sports, one was number 003 of 172 Scarabs, he took it all over the place, he's originally from Isle of Lewis and is an Air Traffic Controller up in Shetlands now and used to take his car to main land all the time he was off, racked up nearly 50K of trouble free miles in only 3 years, now has a Z4 3L and says although its faster, its maybe not as much fun as the old Clio was.

Two former Cinq Turbo owners from on here now have phase two 172's and both love. First had a alternator go, but well that covers any car, 2nd exhaust corroded at back box, but then on any car now 6 years old on original mild steel exhaust is coming to end of shelf life.

Everyone I have know has been able to get well over 30mpg from there Clio's and over 40mpg on motorway cruises, whereas although I like Honda's VTEC cars (we are looking to possibly get an integra Type R for Emma) they are not as good on fuel by a long shot compared to the Renaults and are poorer on emissions which will effect the new tax bands when introduced retrospectively, well unless they U-turn on that.

If you have upto 7K you may be able to get a Trophy and there's nothing you would need to change on that car, it has trick Sachs dampers; tick, amazing Recaro's seats; tick, Speedline wheels; tick, one of best FWD cars ever built; tick.
 
Whatever you do, do NOT get a Seat. I wouldnt recommend one to anyone after owning the Ibiza for less than 5 months.

You know the right choice Si :D

:confused: OK so the pedal box is a bit iffy on some but what faults do Seat have that Fiats, Fords et al dont?
 
Thomas, cheers for the suggestion but to be honest none of the Seat's really float my boat. Their Cupra range does offer blistering pace but I dont think they are true drivers cars :eek:

WRP, how did I know you was going to suggest the 182 mate ;) lol

Matt, the 172 is probably the better value-for-money RS option but it's a little bit older than I want to be going for seeing as Clio wise my budget would stretch to a newer model. Although it does have the real sleeper advantage in phase 2 form :devil:

Aaron, thanks for your input mate. I hadn't actually considered the Trophy but now that you mention it prices are starting to fall into my budget so it might be worth a look. Although I'm not sure if it would maybe be a little bit too 'focused' for daily driving (a test drive will confirm this though). The Sachs remote reservoir dampers alone probably warrant the upgrade to Trophy however I wouldn't turn down the Recaro's or the Turini's :D

Ffoxy, I dont think Wolfracepunto actually has anything against the Seat, it's just that he's sold his Ibiza in favour of a 182 because the Clio felt more like a drivers car (as I suggested above).
 
The thing with the Clio Trophy is that those trick remote reservoir dampers do not make the ride any worse than normal, if anything they improve it, Renault really are masters of mixing chassis control with proper matched springs & dampers so as not to make ride too poor, unlike many cars.

On the new Megane R26R because they have removed 123kgs from kerb weight, they have again fitted trick dampers and actually made the springs softer over normal Megane R26 meaning it has an improved ride.

Whereas the 54 plate Ibiza Cupra R that Emma's Dad had had probably the worst ride of any standard car I've been in, harsh, crashy, lots of road noise, and the traction control light came on loads on bumpy roads due to the to stiff suspension bouncing too much, I reckon with some slightly softer springs and better bump control on the dampers car would be much better.

Hard suspension doesn't always mean control and more speed, often making a car stiffer only gives illusion of going faster as there's less roll, but in fact as car is not absorbing the bumps as well is going slower, the motion of rolling can make the car feel like you can't push more, but you can. God seats help as well, because if they hold you firmly in place, you can more indication of what's really happening to the car, hence the Sachs/Recaro combo in Trophy working so well.

But get yourself a short list, go drive them and you will know almost instantly what's for you :)
 
:confused: OK so the pedal box is a bit iffy on some but what faults do Seat have that Fiats, Fords et al dont?
This is based on a less than two year old 56 plate Ibiza 20VT FR with 18k miles on it. Other Seat models may or may not be the same?!

The trouble with my Ibiza was the suspension, steering, ride quality, tyre/road noise, build quality and the overall feel of the car. The suspension used to knock and feel loose all the time, it went back under warranty to get sorted but the knocking came back! This was the main problem for me, the whole front end felt loose. At 70mph on the motorway I needed ear plugs, my bones shattered over every pothole, and yet the handling was rubbish. It didnt make sense at all. And the interior trim creaked, rattled, vibrated :yuck: :yuck: So glad I got rid.

So not that many faults really, apart from the knocking suspension, just loads of frustrating niggles on a relatively new car. RUBBISH (n)

Anyway back on topic... I picked up the 182 yesterday and love it. The whole car feels solid - yep the build quality is really good and its a Renault! But the way it drives is just awesome. More fun than an Astra VXR :eek: :worship: And nearly as fun as the bike.
 
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