Off Topic New 500X

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If it was brought out it would get the Juke market segment. But it reminds me of an X5 which I though was pretty pointless.
 

306maxi

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http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/282784/fiat_500x_on_way.html

I had no idea!

But there is no way the Panda wheelbase is long enough to sit four with such a low roof. This must be a lengthened chassis. Looks good though.

Like Rob says, it's AE fantasy.

The rear door is a frigging joke.

Nice to see it's got decent brakes though, front brakes from the Grande Punto Abarth (and the wheels) front and rear.

Because I'm feeling especially lazy today, here's my stock standard anti-Auto Express rant

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/203479-wow-abarth-500c-auto-express.html#post2180212

Yeah and the 500l looks just like this :rolleyes:
car_photo_221537_5.jpg
 

JTD_Liam

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I think it will happen, but not to look like how AutoExpress have dreamt up. Fiat seem pretty determined to turn the 500 into an entire brand. Wouldn't be a bad idea if the rest of the Fiat range consisted of more than a couple of converted vans, and ageing & arugably overpriced Punto & Bravo that people don't seem bothered about buying, and a Panda to prop-up sales. Citroen can create the DS brand because their regular C1, C3, C5 & Picasso models are half-competitive. Fiat seem to be trying to do it with only a half baked regular range.

The 500X will (i should imagine) be built on the Punto/Corsa platform, hence the decision to use Mirafiori to build it, as they already build the MiTo on the same platform. Fiat Group tend to build models that share platforms in the same factories, which makes sence. Ie 500/old Panda/Ka/Ypsilon in Tychy (Poland), Bravo/Delta in Cassino (with Giulietta on new platform), Qubo/Doblo & commercial vehicle equivilents in Turkey.

It's good to see new models from Fiat, but a shame they seem to be doing it at the expense of pushing Alfa.
 

Ralf S.

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Agreed that it will look nothing like the AE artist's impression.. but yes, it makes sense. It'll use the new Panda platform like the 500L.. and if it keeps the tin moving out the door then it's got to be good.

I'd rather like to see a 500 4x4 (previous Panda had the hardware) .. but not in the vein of a Panda "Cross" (off roady)... more like an Abarth 500 "Integrale". :cool:


Ralf S.
 

306maxi

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Agreed that it will look nothing like the AE artist's impression.. but yes, it makes sense. It'll use the new Panda platform like the 500L.. and if it keeps the tin moving out the door then it's got to be good.

I'd rather like to see a 500 4x4 (previous Panda had the hardware) .. but not in the vein of a Panda "Cross" (off roady)... more like an Abarth 500 "Integrale". :cool:


Ralf S.
That would all make sense if the 500L actually used the Panda platform.......
 
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Ulpian

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The press is very careless about its talk of platforms.

Years ago Fiat began developing flexible platforms, and now two 'similar' ones might only share one or two pressings.

There is no way the Panda platform as it stands could support the 500L, which has a longer wheelbase and is much wider than the 500, or even the new Panda.

The Chrysler Dart is sold as being built on a modified Giulietta platform, even though it has a longer weelbase and wider track. That's modularity for you!

It seems that the base platform for the 500L is the Punto, modified of course, and as for the 500X, who knows? I blame sloppy jornalism for confusing everbody.

It does seem that Fiat is indeed doing what Citroen has done with the DS and creating a 500 sub-'make', possibly to appeal to punters who aren't comfortable saying 'Fiat' but feel happy saying 500 to their friends. It is noticable how the 500 has brought a whole constituency of buyers to Fiat who would previously never have looked at the make. And since the traditional Fiat products have been allowed to wither and the 500 'brand' is strong, I can see Fiat's marketing strategy.

In the US the Dodge Ram has spawned a whole marque, 'Ram', and of course, Citroen is using the great DS to sell a whole tranche of fashionable little cars with no particualr engineering prowess, and the scam seems to be working.
 
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Gotta love AE eh??

The 500X I would've thought is purely going to be the name for a 4x4 500L. Like the MultiCross was to the Panda. Chunky bits here and there, different bumper and inserts like the Qubo Trekking.

I don't think anyone is under the illusion that the 'X' will be a totally new car different in every way to the 'L', except perhaps AE.

Steve
 
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babbo_umbro

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The press is very careless about its talk of platforms.

.....

And since the traditional Fiat products have been allowed to wither and the 500 'brand' is strong, I can see Fiat's marketing strategy.

In the US the Dodge Ram has spawned a whole marque, 'Ram', and of course, Citroen is using the great DS to sell a whole tranche of fashionable little cars with no particualr engineering prowess, and the scam seems to be working.

Agree with the first bit but the fact is that the Panda and the Punto outsell the 500. Much as I dislike it - see Panda (2012) section - the new Panda looks as though it will be a great success and the Punto is a money-maker for Fiat. I fear that any attempts to produce ever-more bizarre variations on other platforms and calling them 500-something will be costly failures - the priority for Fiat is to have its main models more competitive and gaining market share, while tackling personnel issues to make their Italian plants competitively productive.
 
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Ulpian

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Agree with the first bit but the fact is that the Panda and the Punto outsell the 500. Much as I dislike it - see Panda (2012) section - the new Panda looks as though it will be a great success and the Punto is a money-maker for Fiat. I fear that any attempts to produce ever-more bizarre variations on other platforms and calling them 500-something will be costly failures - the priority for Fiat is to have its main models more competitive and gaining market share, while tackling personnel issues to make their Italian plants competitively productive.

The Panda should do very well, it's a great little car. Unfortunatey Fiat is struggling with the Punto, even in the Italian market, elsewhere it is sinking. The Bravo is dead and the Doblos and the Cubo do well in Italy but are not major players anywhere else with volume markets.

Certainly Fiat should build more Fiats. I agree that this 500 thing could easily confuse people, it is me ;).

The Punto is beng completley replaced in two years and the current one is only a stop-gap, and I wish it would be advertised more because I prefer it to the competitors, but that's just me again.

Fiat is trying very hard to change the employment culture in italy, and I wish them well. Apart from desirable new models nothing is more important than this. Any more disruptive strikes and the company will be in trouble, in fact if there was continued disruption from inexible and beligerent unions I could see the whole business decamping to Eastern Europe and the Americas. I just hope everyone realises how serious the situation is. Fiat has spent a fortune turning Chrysler around, and even now the Chrysler/Fiat group is spending less on R&D than the major competition. Chrysler is now doing well however, so the money has been well spent.

I like Fiats, a lot, so I live in hope.
 
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.. the priority for Fiat is to have its main models more competitive and gaining market share, while tackling personnel issues to make their Italian plants competitively productive.

When I first read some of the statistics on cars per man (Click here) I couldn't see how the Panda could be made competitively against the UP (made in Slovakia). Even the UK, the Nissan factory had a higher output per man. A Panda 2012 1.2 speced up here is €14,995 with room for a little discount. That's too expensive and I can't see them selling since the Panda is deemed to be a utilitarian vehicle.

In relation to personnel issues what sprung to mind was temperament and the phrase 'you can take a man out of the bog but never the bog out of a man' came to mind.:eek:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=811138

...Fiat is trying very hard to change the employment culture in italy, and I wish them well. Apart from desirable new models nothing is more important than this. Any more disruptive strikes and the company will be in trouble, in fact if there was continued disruption from inexible and beligerent unions I could see the whole business decamping to Eastern Europe and the Americas. I just hope everyone realises how serious the situation is. Fiat has spent a fortune turning Chrysler around, and even now the Chrysler/Fiat group is spending less on R&D than the major competition. Chrysler is now doing well however, so the money has been well spent.

I like Fiats, a lot, so I live in hope.

I wondered as to why is Fiat is creating employment in its own country given the higher labour costs. On the trend of outsourcing to cheaper countries one stark reality check for Poland (they looked at our history) is that they know that they have a '10 year window' before their employer moves on elsewhere. Seeing Italy buck the trend is admirable and I would imagine that the government is making it worth their while to keep the employment local.

Courtest of wiki - Gianni Agnelli who was the former head of Fiat broke the strangehold of the Unions back in the 80s and would appear to be very well 'connected'. Interesting bit of trivia about Pamela Chuchill Harriman as one of his mistresses. Also his 'dress sense' explains the GUCCI tie-up so the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianni_Agnelli"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianni_Agnelli[/ame]
The social conflicts related to Fiat's policies (some say politics) always saw Agnelli keeping the leading role; in the 1980s, during the last important trade union action, a dramatic situation in which a strike was blocking all of Fiat's production, he was able to organise the march of 40,000 workers who broke the pickets and re-entered the factories. This marked the demise of the power of trade unions, which to this day have not recovered their influence on Italy's politics and economy
His many detractors point out that in all his activity, Agnelli mainly served his family's interests, without regard for the damage this might cause cause to the nation. Fiat, in this view, persuaded the Italian government to adjust labour and tax laws according to the company's interests. Also, Agnelli was seen as continuing to enrich himself while Italy was getting poorer. Agnelli never responded to these accusations.
 
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Ulpian

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Itaian unions are still very powerful and very anachronistic, and the leaders are hard to deal with. In many cases they don't seem to have realised that times have changed. Fiat management is still regularly called into governemnt offices so that the screws can be put on to come to 'accomodations'. How this works in real terms is uncertain, but there are European rules about government subsidies. And italy is as broke as the rest of us now! When Fiat recently closed a factory in Sicily that ran at a total loss there was an outcry. It was only bulit there to bring jobs to the island and was never economic. I do know many Italians who believe jobs should be subsidised indefinitely and that there will always be money from somewhere.

Having said that it is good that Fiat has managed to agree terms in order to modernise the Naples factory, even if it is still not the most efficient in Europe. However, it does press its own steel and fabricate a lot that is usually bought in, which is unusual, so i wonder if this labour input is computed into the overall efficiency figures?

Also, Fiat still has the largest market share in Italy, even if it is down. If it were to pull up stumps and totally decamp to Detroit, Mexico and Brazil I suspect a great many Italians would simply stop buying any Fiat badged products at all. And who could blame them!
 
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Itaian unions are still very powerful and very anachronistic, and the leaders are hard to deal with. In many cases they don't seem to have realised that times have changed....

Unions here are being given the shove and practically all companies over 500+ employees have no unions. Studies have been done that demonstrate that industrial relations are highest in non-union companies. For it to work successfully you need HR policies so that employees are not exploited. That said I ended up working 12 hour days with a multi-national and that was in breech of the average 48 hour European rule. Our minimum wage rate has dropped by 12% to €7.65 to 'help' keep us competitive. If Fiat are looking for a new place to do business they could always knock on our door with our 12.5% corporate tax rate. ;) How long we get to keep it is a topic for some place else.:eek:
 
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