Technical MY20 160ps Engine characteristics

[BurntMarmite]

Does anyone have experience of the 160ps engine on a 2.3 MY 20 Ducato (stop/start ad-blue). Currently on 6000 miles. MH2 van with 16" OEM alloys.

I don't have any issues with it exactly, but the driving characteristics are not what I'd call modern and comfortable.

I have a feeling the engine feels restricted in some way, as if its hard to breath. When you floor it, it does appear to perform, but if you are casually driving its hard to feel its a smooth drive. 6th gear is useless in in 50/60 limits unless its flat, it runs out of puff very easily, even on motorway cruising at 65mph (just under 2000rpm in 6th).

If you lift off gently, eg to knock a few mph off past a junction for instance, it feels like you are actually breaking - or as if you are driving through mud - the retardation is greater than you'd expect.

Also the electronics like to blip the engine, so in a 30 if you are gently on throttle and release a bit, the engine blips a bit.

And at various revs the engine notes change, I assume its EGRs/DPF/Adblue doing its thing.

Just feels like its harder work driving than it should be, and only getting 27-30mpg max is rather dissapointing.

Is that how it is?

Or is there new ECU software to improve driving?

 

[oigle]

Think I would get a scan done to see if anything pops up. Re driving in 6th at low speed - don't!! I don't select 6th under 80kph. Is yours a clutchless manual or full auto? If the former, use the manual function to select appropriate gear for speed and circumstances. I use manual all the time - like to be in control rather than have gears changed by computer, often inappropriately.
Ian.

 

[BurntMarmite]

Think I would get a scan done to see if anything pops up. Re driving in 6th at low speed - don't!! I don't select 6th under 80kph. Is yours a clutchless manual or full auto? If the former, use the manual function to select appropriate gear for speed and circumstances. I use manual all the time - like to be in control rather than have gears changed by computer, often inappropriately.
Ian.

I have laptop with software to connect, and no codes are on any module.
Its 6sp manual.
(UK van)

 

[oigle]

Perhaps you need to use lower gears then. Anything under about 1500 is too low for these with open throttle.

 

[BurntMarmite]

Perhaps you need to use lower gears then. Anything under about 1500 is too low for these with open throttle.

That, I cannot disagree with and am adapting to driving that way.

(Disappointing as my other vans, lower powered, pulled from really low rpm and were quite relaxing drives. This seems harder work and despite being latest emissions and efficiency is the worst mpg I've ever had!).


I think having (OEM provided from new) 16" wheels doesn't help - this was an option (included with the "special edition" - whereas the standard is 15" - so perhaps that increases gearing somewhat)

 

[Fredastaire]

I assume you have Multiecuscan. If yes then run the engine and look at manifold pressures to compare the actual pressure compared to the set point and try different revs by blipping and adjusting the accelerator pedal. It should give you an indication as to whether the turbo is being actuated properly or if it's lethargic. You can also monitor the EGR opening and closing in the same way. If it's moderately lethargic it might not be severe enough to generate fault codes.

 

[BurntMarmite]

I assume you have Multiecuscan. If yes then run the engine and look at manifold pressures to compare the actual pressure compared to the set point and try different revs by blipping and adjusting the accelerator pedal. It should give you an indication as to whether the turbo is being actuated properly or if it's lethargic. You can also monitor the EGR opening and closing in the same way. If it's moderately lethargic it might not be severe enough to generate fault codes.

Yes I do. I checked the computers yesterday again, no errors, and saw the settings for turbo, egr, and boost "requested" vs "actual" so will sort out a drive and logging session at somepoint and ensure the request and actual match. On my to do list.
I also noticed its doing dpf regens every 341km on average with all data looking good. More frequent than expected especially as there hasn't ever been a DPF light or dash message which I thought it may do. Also no ad-blue data within Multiecuscan.
So many thanks for the suggestion

 

[Fredastaire]

Mine is 2017 Euro 6 130. You may know I've a current post because of fault codes and limp mode.i hadn't realised how dopy mine had become inc hesitating at start away at a junction. I've changed my MAP and Turbo Boost valve, the driving is remarkably better. The fact that yours is blipping a bit surely means something is changing state. I was fairly innocent a week back, from extensive reading posts I'm getting clued up. I have to assume that our vans are pretty similar except I don't have adblue but do have two EGRs. On the basis of similarity I'm going to guess your turbo has a vacuum actuator like mine. So, first look at the scuttle centre with bonnet up. Mine has a black box with two pipes. One is from a tee piece from the vacuum pump. The other goes to the turbo boost valve. At this boost valve, having run the engine moments earlier, ease off this pipe at the boost and listen for the opposite of escaping air, it's actually air going in. That proves there is vacuum ready for the boost. I think then to visually inspect all the small bore pipes for splits or rodent chewing.
Next I would check the intercooler pipes and radiator for any oiley spots showing a leak. Next I would take out the MAP and give it a clean with Holts brake cleaner before re installing. New MAP sensor are only £32 on ebay. My overall suspicion is that the boost sensor could be sticking and causing the turbo to lag your action on the foot pedal. I would emphasize that I'm on the learning curve because of trying to sort my own van and am clearly not a proven experienced guy on Ducatos, I do have 50 years of automotive work hence having an investigative mental approach

 

[BurntMarmite]

Thanks, yes I've read your posts with interest
Van is still new ish (18mth/6000m) and the behaviour has been for as long as I remember, but thats not to say that memory is right.
I'll see how multiecuscan reports the sensors and see what to do. It will be going for a service at a Fiat main dealer so trying to figure if its a problem or the problem is me and/or my expectations
I will open the bonnet soon

 

[Fredastaire]

Your Fiat guarantee is three years I think?

 

[BurntMarmite]

Your Fiat guarantee is three years I think?

Yep. Will be sorting service in Jan @18mth (early) and then #2 just before the 3yr runs out.
Service costs seem to be £500-550 range so they better do more than just change oil and filters!
(WIll be indy/DIY after that)

 

[BurntMarmite]

OK, facts and figures from run with MultiECU scan. Note the logging was recording a lot at only a sample rate of 0.8s so the odd spike isn't a problem.

60mph in 6th gear is 1800rpm (50mph is 1500rpm) (vehicle speed is in kph*100), thrashed to 60mpg in he first 2 peaks, "laboured" in 3rd peak.

20-60mph takes 13 seconds (van weighs 3 tonnes and has roof rack)

Logging desired and actual fuel matches perfectly on graph

Air intake volume follows pattern for desired air intake but quite a bit of movement

Boost pressure vs desired boost pressure matches on graph with boost pressure a little higher after a blat (turbo still spinning?) - and is down during the high demand sections (e.g. when floored, a couple of sample points of actual vs desired boost are a bit lower till it spins up a bit - but all looks like expected slightly behind the curve behaviour

And the EGR (only one had data, assume only one EGR on this!)

All interesting, and nothing jumps out at being "wrong" - there is no visible lag or stickiness on turbo or EGR, airflow seems to match or exceed demands. Bear in mind this was a hard drive between 2 roundabouts, not the smoothest of drives or a consistent cruise. But looks like fueling, turbo, boost, and airflow is all responding to the throttle position and all as I'd roughly expect

I'll need to keep revs up a bit more. And just accept the fact lifting off at times feels like the breaks are applying due to van doing something for some reason

Deffo still a note change at 2000 rpm, but nothing obvious in data.

So perhaps there is nothing wrong, and the characteristics are just that.

Recording audio was mostly road noise.