Technical MS Guru's Needed..... UT :D

[sei16v]

Hey people...

I know technically I may be in the wrong section to ask, however I know from being on this forum for years this is normally the best section for advise, and a lot of you run, or have experience of megasquirt!!

Im basically looking to run spark & fuel on a mk2 uno turbo engine, however a little confused as the original engine is a dizzy set up and I cant seem to find anywhere that shows how to drive the spark by the MS system only. The closest thing I can find is the image attached, and that looks to only control a single coil, which then I guess feeds the dizzy and then to the plugs?

Ideally I was looking to bin off all the standard ignition side of things, having the ignition directly driven by MS (using drivers), and then installing the MAP & air temp side of things on the fuelling (trying to use all the normal sensors, but binning off the standard UT ecus)...



Any help would be grand...

 

[sei16v]

Im thinking out loud here, but could I possibly......

Run a punto GT bottom pully 60-2 (for the MS)

Run a punto GT waterpump (for the ribbed belt)...

Run a punto GT alternator (or just the wheel on the UT alt)?

 

[fingers99]

Maybe, but if starting -- as it were, from scratch, I'd just forget the dizzy, run a trigger wheel (Megasquirt seem to have more support for the 36-1 Fraud pattern, although 60-2 is possible) from these folks.

As long as you have some way of mounting the trigger wheel and the crank sensor, everything else can remain in place.

 

[sei16v]

Maybe, but if starting -- as it were, from scratch, I'd just forget the dizzy, run a trigger wheel (Megasquirt seem to have more support for the 36-1 Fraud pattern, although 60-2 is possible) from these folks.

As long as you have some way of mounting the trigger wheel and the crank sensor, everything else can remain in place.

Cheers fingers....

I want to forget all the dizzy like you say, and have just ordered the ms (literally, hence why im online so late haha)....

Gone for MS2 v3 diy build kit, so a good few hours soldering for me!!

Didn't think of a standard trigger wheel, so that could be an easier option.. Just need to work out where to mount it

 

[fingers99]

I never thought I'd see another dizzy, then I went out and bought 3 Mr2 Mk2s and a T5. Prehistoric EFI systems, but they're still working.

 

[randomizered]

I've just done a bit of googling....looks like the distributor is purely to send the spark to the respective plug. I think the ignition is ECU controlled and it appears there my be two sensors. One pointing at the flywheel teeth, and a second somewhere with timings 180 degrees apart.

A haynes manual or some real idea of how it works would help, but I'd def look at utilising the triggers that are already there, rather than bodging new timing rings n etc.

MS can take in and use 2 timing inputs so thats not an issue.....you'll prob be able to get sequential spark and injection running on it as well.

Sure there are some guides etc on the net somewhere for this engine.

 

[randomizered]

Courtsey of lewey in this thread. Looks like he may have a pdf haynes manual if u PM him.

A bit more reading, looks like you will need to fit a lambda sensor, change the TPS (as it is an on/off) type, and I'd imagine the injectors are low imp.



tada! http://www.avtoitalia.ru/katalog/Haynes-Fiat_Uno_manual.pdf

 

[fingers99]

Take it off the pulley? Dizzy's tend to be inherently inaccurate.

But that system rivals Herr Bosch for complexity.

 

[randomizered]

After a bit of reading, both sensors are on the crank. One is the flywheel end (no missing teeth), reading the starter ring it looks like.

The other is the pulley end reading two 180 degree marks.

MS2 Extra can't read the number of teeth on the flywheel quick enough, so you will just have too ditch that sensor. You can't use a 2 or 1 tooth wheel either, so the only thing left to do is as above and fit a timing ring.

I'd remove the crank pulley, and measure it accuratly so you can get a custom made ring that is a perfect fit allowing you to utilise the sensor already fitted to the engine. You can use plenty of different ring patterns.

Just running a missing tooth crank wheel will only get you wasted spark, but that should be fine for now. If you want to go sequential, you will need a cam trigger as well and the easiest route would probably be modifying the dizzie.

//edit -- is this what the pulley side timing looks like (sensor obv missing in this picture!)

 

[sei16v]

Jesus Kitrip..... You deffo have the GURU status now!!! A huge thanks!! Esp for the PDF along with all the much needed info!!

I couldn't find anything like what you have dug up for me, so I appreciate it!

I did however find this,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-128-...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c70e5d403

Which looks to be an expensive alloy pully set up which can be used for the uno 1.4 and the GT punto... Thus got me thinking I could probably get all the standard parts and it should all fit, meaning I would only need to make a bracket up for the timing sensor (unless I could find a PGT one which hopefully bolts to the engine - as todger 'thinks' their the same/similar cast). Ive checked 2 cambelt kit part numbers, and with one particular engine type which I think I may have, its a shared part number with the PGT, mk2UT and strangely the tipo/tempra 1.6 & scudo van (VKMA02410 & CT605K1)... If the kits are shared between the PGT and UTmk2 then im hoping the PGT aux belt for the WP, Bottom Pully & alt should line up on the UT block giving me an almost factory 60-2 set up.

I should then have the spark side sorted (unless im missing anything?)..

And then a case of making an inlet for the new TPS and air temp sensor... Oooh and take off for the MAP...

Is there anything else ive overlooked?

Appreciate the help!!!

 

[randomizered]

No worries.

Having never seen the engine close up, and all the variants etc, it's hard for me to see exactly whats going on....seeing it in the flesh would be easier.

Your about right though..

MAP take off (easiest place is probably to fit a tee pie into the brake servo hose)

TPS -- Currently a "switch" so needs swapping for a sensor.....I bet there are parts that are a direct swap

Remove MAF .... MS can use it instead, but its not as well tested.

Ignore or blank off dizzie....just fit coil packs somewhere.

I'd look at finding a high imp injectors if possible. Not a fan of inline resistors.....alternatively, this should do the trick:

http://www.jbperf.com/p&h_board/index.html
http://www.jbperf.com/p&h_board/v2_0.html (v2 sold out)


I did see that thing on ebay but didn't list it due too £££££. I take it the current alt/waterpump is a single V belt, not a multi pitch belt like listed in the picture, and so that thing is an upgrade? I'd just modify the current pulley if I was you.

What model ECU is it running?

 

[sei16v]

No worries.

Having never seen the engine close up, and all the variants etc, it's hard for me to see exactly whats going on....seeing it in the flesh would be easier.

Your about right though..

MAP take off (easiest place is probably to fit a tee pie into the brake servo hose)

TPS -- Currently a "switch" so needs swapping for a sensor.....I bet there are parts that are a direct swap

Remove MAF .... MS can use it instead, but its not as well tested.

Ignore or blank off dizzie....just fit coil packs somewhere.

I'd look at finding a high imp injectors if possible. Not a fan of inline resistors.....alternatively, this should do the trick:

http://www.jbperf.com/p&h_board/index.html
http://www.jbperf.com/p&h_board/v2_0.html (v2 sold out)


I did see that thing on ebay but didn't list it due too £££££. I take it the current alt/waterpump is a single V belt, not a multi pitch belt like listed in the picture, and so that thing is an upgrade? I'd just modify the current pulley if I was you.

What model ECU is it running?

Not sure on the ECU at the min as im still awaiting delivery of the car from kent. (fingers crossed its one route today, but the bloke is a bit useless as I was told it would be here the other day, grr)

The only concerns I had about modifying the standard pulley was trying to get the trigger wheel in the perfect position as I really don't want any issues when trying to get it running.

I didn't realise the standard injectors would be a problem as I bought this exact MS that says 'use high or low impedance injectors'... have I made a b*lls up? lol..

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/...le-efi-system-pcb30-kit-black-case-p-119.html