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General 'Mr Clutch' - anyone used them, any good?
- Thread starter brooking147
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General 'Mr Clutch' - anyone used them, any good?
How I learned too. In fact my first cars didn't have synchro on first gear so you had to learn the technique - Double declutching? - if you wanted to select first at anything other than a standstill. Synchro on those old cars was not what it is today and being able to use this technique, especially on down changing, made for much smoother progress. I've just got so used to doing it that I carried on with it, However, it doesn't work very well on the latest generation of wee turbo'd engines because turbo lag makes it almost impossible to get the revs right on the blip.
In fact it's a very useful thing to learn because if your clutch pedal/cable/hydraulics/whatever fails then, if you can judge revs with the mark one ear'ole, you can start from a standstill with the car in first by operating the starter until the engine catches then change gears both up and down simply by matching revs. Knock it into neutral as you slow and brake it to a rest. Select first with the engine dead, operate the starter when the lights go red, and off you go again! I drove my old Cordoba half way across Edinburgh, in quite heavy traffic, like this when the clutch pedal bracket sheared leaving me with no way to operate the clutch. It was a technique I learned in the garage which could occasionally be used to recover a customer's vehicle from an awkward heavy traffic situation into a side street where you could then safely and in your own unhurried time, hook it up to the Landy's tow crane. - Harvey Frost Bugsy?
The synchromesh unit for each gear relies on a speed difference to operate. It deliberately misaligns the engagement teeth, so that the mild pressure as the gear is engaged matches the component speed. If you match the speeds of both sides, there being no speed difference, the teeth may not be out of line as they should be. If perfectly aligned (3 components) it will slide together fine, but if only slightly misaligned, without a speed difference, more force is exerted onto the tiny teeth. This will cause greater wear. It will take a very long time to show any noticeable wear, but I have seen a gearbox with severe wear to the synchro hubs and rings after about 45k miles, due a guy who double-declutched every time, up and down, just like he was taught by his father on very old cars.
A slow, gentle engagement of the gears will make a smooth engagement, with the least wear. A faster selection puts more pressure on the synchro.
It is often the clutch release bearing that is faulthy - but when in there - it is better to replace the clutch too, even it still has a lot of miles - so better upgrade on the clutch bearing - but You can have a complete clutch-kit for only around 70 € from autodoc or Ebay.
It is not that difficult to replace the clutch on the Fiat Panda/Punto - but still a days hard work - and most garages/homemecanics can do it.
Before I have often had to renew a clutch because the clutch bearing gave up - so now I always try to put the gearbox in neutral (you can usally do this without using the clutch), when idling, going down hill or stopping at red light - so far I have not had to change any clutch or clutchbearing on my own cars since.
It is not that difficult to replace the clutch on the Fiat Panda/Punto - but still a days hard work - and most garages/homemecanics can do it.
Before I have often had to renew a clutch because the clutch bearing gave up - so now I always try to put the gearbox in neutral (you can usally do this without using the clutch), when idling, going down hill or stopping at red light - so far I have not had to change any clutch or clutchbearing on my own cars since.
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They say the clutch kit used was a LUK. Mileage at 145k so if original (I have owned car since approx 70k) not bad. Was bearing noise rather than slipping.At the end of the day I don't think you've been ripped off. Hopefully they have fitted a good brand of clutch which should last many years. I have owned cars that have done 70/80 plus miles and never needed a clutch replacement, it's all down to how you drive. A couple of points to be aware of (forgive me if you already know this) Don't slip the clutch when changing gears and don't hold the car on a gradient using the clutch I see a lot of drivers doing this instead of applying the handbrake. My dad bought a new Mk one Escort 1300 GL many years ago and did about 80k in it over many years and sold it with the original clutch. He taught me how to drive by the way.
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Yeah, think it was the bearing rather than the plate going in mine. Not a job I would attempt myself though.
LUK is a big name good quality product which has been around for many years. Valeo seems to get a particularly good name for clutches for the FIRE engine family. My local FIAT indy fits nothing else. However I'd be very surprised if the LUK doesn't prove to be just as good and I'm sure it will serve you well.
Originals I have taken off have been AP they have lasted well and very smooth engagement
Bonefish Blues
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Out of curiosity I just looked up the price of a clutch at the eponymous Mr C.
It's not an option that can be selected on their pricing menu
It's not an option that can be selected on their pricing menu
AP OE fit and aftermarket come off two very separate production lines. Sometimes, the aftermarket ones can be quite different. When a vehicle is in production, the supplier makes lots of clutches, but once out of production, the aftermarket demand is a lot less. A different process is used in manufacture, which should result in the same product, but sometimes does not. Both production lines are impressive, with the amount of automation, but the aftermarket involves more people, and smaller batches.
Quite often, whoever the manufacturer, for production line, there may be specific clutches for each engine. Aftermarket may specify one for several engines, e.g. 1.2/1.4, or different power outputs from one engine type.
Personally, having seen the UK AP production facility, and dealt with aftermarket warranty claims, I'd always specify Valeo or LUK for mine.
I served my apprenticeship many years ago at a well known Jaguar main dealer in Manchester. When we had a fault mainly with the ignition system that we couldn't pin point right away we did the the process of elimination, so you we would go to the stores and get a new coil if that wasn't the problem we would return it to the stores rather than leaving on the car and get a set of leads etc etc til we found what was causing the the problem. The customer was only charged for the part that was left on the car. I'm going back 50 years so there wasn't the diagnostics then as they are now, but I think that system was very fair on the customer, rather than charging for parts that weren't needed.
Running my small one man business, my customers all knew me and vice a versa, I knew their cheques wouldn't bounce and they knew I would only charge for work done. Where ever possible I would ring the customer to let them know if any extra work was required to get approval to which they were always happy to give the go ahead. I spoke to one husband of a customer on the phone and told him about some leaking brake cylinders, he started to get all arsey about garages and I said please come down and inspect right now while the car is on the ramp, his wife my customer came down with him and proceeded to tear him to pieces in front of me about not trusting my work, so he was forced to apologise.
Perhaps he was trying to save money on repairs, and divorce costs, all in one go. Dodgy brakes, wife's car, a plan was forming?
One memory I have, is of a customer who was loyal, kept coming back, but always complained that we did not do the work. He was overheard once saying that when in for a service, all we did was wipe the rocker cover over. Next service, he insisted on standing in the workshop to watch. The mechanic, drove the car in, positioned it carefully on the hoist, checked all around, lifted the bonnet, wiped the rocker cover with an oily rag, closed the bonnet and drove the car out again. The guy took the hint and left us to it.
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kmor panda
Member
Be careful who you get to change the clutch.
I got quotes between €300 to €1000+ with stories of a failed gearbox etc. 'Mr Gearbox, Mr Clutch' did the job at a reasonable (for here) €500.
Mine is a 2006 1.1 and had a problem of heavy clutch pedal, difficulty changing gear exp reverse and clicking noise when clutch pedal was on the floor. The issue was that in the past 16 odd years, the clutch disk was replaced but the car still had the original pressure plate and thrust bearing (cheap junk mechanics). As a result, my clutch disk was not worn, but three of the four rivots in the pressure plate had broken resulting in a split pressure plate. I got the 3 part & gear oil replaced and my car has never run better.
I got quotes between €300 to €1000+ with stories of a failed gearbox etc. 'Mr Gearbox, Mr Clutch' did the job at a reasonable (for here) €500.
Mine is a 2006 1.1 and had a problem of heavy clutch pedal, difficulty changing gear exp reverse and clicking noise when clutch pedal was on the floor. The issue was that in the past 16 odd years, the clutch disk was replaced but the car still had the original pressure plate and thrust bearing (cheap junk mechanics). As a result, my clutch disk was not worn, but three of the four rivots in the pressure plate had broken resulting in a split pressure plate. I got the 3 part & gear oil replaced and my car has never run better.
Always made sense to fit the three in one clutch kit, though with concentric clutch hydraulics I would make sure to replace that also, at the same time to avoid the extra labour cost later.
As an apprentice in the late 1960s we often had to fit just the centre plate, due to customers penny pinching request and even had a job explaining the need to replace a carbon thrust bearing that had worn to the metal due to bad driver resting their foot on the pedal!
One could argue in those days the pressure plate was the ones with individual coil springs not the "soft feel" diaphragm type of today, the clutches could be so fierce when new that we often used to have bets on how many times the driver would stall leaving the forecourt. If you have driven an Austin A30 with it's rod clutch linkage and a new Borg and Beck clutch you will know what I mean.
When you compare that with some diaphragm LUK clutches that felt distinctly weak on first road test until bedded in, to the point that I have reported them to my Motor Factor incase of a subsequent claim. I would say once bedded in no problem.
The other point worth noting that most cars in those days you could have the gearbox out on the floor in 30 minutes without breaking a sweat unlike many FWD vehicles of today.
As an apprentice in the late 1960s we often had to fit just the centre plate, due to customers penny pinching request and even had a job explaining the need to replace a carbon thrust bearing that had worn to the metal due to bad driver resting their foot on the pedal!
One could argue in those days the pressure plate was the ones with individual coil springs not the "soft feel" diaphragm type of today, the clutches could be so fierce when new that we often used to have bets on how many times the driver would stall leaving the forecourt. If you have driven an Austin A30 with it's rod clutch linkage and a new Borg and Beck clutch you will know what I mean.
When you compare that with some diaphragm LUK clutches that felt distinctly weak on first road test until bedded in, to the point that I have reported them to my Motor Factor incase of a subsequent claim. I would say once bedded in no problem.
The other point worth noting that most cars in those days you could have the gearbox out on the floor in 30 minutes without breaking a sweat unlike many FWD vehicles of today.
Absolutely. The good old days.
