General MOT Grr!

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General MOT Grr!

Punto1cab

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The owned from new (!998) Cabrio has just crashed it's MOT (first time ever apart from niggles). Always MOT'd by same garage (& usually same inspector!)
SWMBO is not impressed. Heads may roll unless it is sorted fast!
Bit more serious this time....four seat belt anchorage (NSR & OSR + NSF & OSF) "strength or continuity significantly reduced".
and a "suspension component prescribed area being excessively corroded- O/S front"
When looking at the underside with the inspector the front & rear ends of the sills are pretty flaky & crusty too. but not a fail (yet!)
I think/hope the seat belt mountings can be fixed by cutting and plating. Front ones on the underside are easy to see The rear ones, who knows? are they in box sections?
The suspension area needs investigation, but with luck (!) can be sorted without too much problem but cut and plate....I have a good man with a cutter, bender and welder!
Most serious (not!) is one rear regn. no plate bulb inoperative! I think I can fix that.
A question for the "experts"...is it possible to get the plastic sill skirts off without destroying either the clips or the plastic sill?
I don't suppose sills are available....? Is anything adapt-able No doubt the inner sill (I imagine there is one?) is unavailable too.
Any parts list or exploded diagrams of Cabrio bodies available on line?
The car is a keeper mechanically & the obvious bodywork is very good, but clearly the underside is getting dodgy with the original protection beginning to flake & let water into areas where I don't want it!
David
 
The owned from new (!998) Cabrio has just crashed it's MOT (first time ever apart from niggles). Always MOT'd by same garage (& usually same inspector!)
SWMBO is not impressed. Heads may roll unless it is sorted fast!
Bit more serious this time....four seat belt anchorage (NSR & OSR + NSF & OSF) "strength or continuity significantly reduced".
and a "suspension component prescribed area being excessively corroded- O/S front"
When looking at the underside with the inspector the front & rear ends of the sills are pretty flaky & crusty too. but not a fail (yet!)
I think/hope the seat belt mountings can be fixed by cutting and plating. Front ones on the underside are easy to see The rear ones, who knows? are they in box sections?
The suspension area needs investigation, but with luck (!) can be sorted without too much problem but cut and plate....I have a good man with a cutter, bender and welder!
Most serious (not!) is one rear regn. no plate bulb inoperative! I think I can fix that.
A question for the "experts"...is it possible to get the plastic sill skirts off without destroying either the clips or the plastic sill?
I don't suppose sills are available....? Is anything adapt-able No doubt the inner sill (I imagine there is one?) is unavailable too.
Any parts list or exploded diagrams of Cabrio bodies available on line?
The car is a keeper mechanically & the obvious bodywork is very good, but clearly the underside is getting dodgy with the original protection beginning to flake & let water into areas where I don't want it!
David
I have found suppliers of pattern sills....
 
I have found suppliers of pattern sills....
I would tend to get the ones on the car patch welded if it's localised areas of rust. The pattern ones won't be galvanised and the repair would have to be thoroughly prepped and finished to avoid problems returning. You cut out the rust off and butt weld the patches in.
 
I would tend to get the ones on the car patch welded if it's localised areas of rust. The pattern ones won't be galvanised and the repair would have to be thoroughly prepped and finished to avoid problems returning. You cut out the rust off and butt weld the patches in.
It's been a wee while since I did any more than weld in patches on sills but I remember being told some years ago that replacement sills come in two types: Cover sills which are designed to be welded over the top of an existing sill to achieve a "quick fix" and "proper" replacement sills where the original needs to be completely cut away to fit.

The cover sill type tends to be made of lighter gauge metal and I was advised not to buy them. Anyway, welding new metal over old corroded metal is very poor practice as it will rust the new metal much more quickly. You also need to be aware that welds will corrode considerably more quickly than parent metal - because the metal's structure has been altered by the welding - so you really must do something like wax injection to protect the bare metal inside the sill cavity when you've completed the welding whether patching or fitting a complete sill.

The trouble with sills is that they perfectly illustrate the "iceberg principal" - there's always a lot more rust than you can see on the surface!
 
Once a car needs serious welding then it's days are numbered in my view, unless as Jock says, it's a major strip, cut, and proper welding job. Rust has a habit of travelling much further than it appears before you get to good metal underneath a car..
 
Have found with galv.(assume Punto is galvanised) it holds rust at bay (for a while). Whilst the back 20cm of the sills on the Tipo were completely shot due to water ingress, the rest of the sill was generally rust free and best kept on providing the ingress was stopped. Meantime aftermarket ones in primer have rusted from just being in the garage. As you say, once multiple interventions are necessary, it's too late without serious work, plus the remainder of the car needs to be protected asap.
 
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Have found with galv.(assume Punto is galvanised) it holds rust at bay (for a while). Whilst the back 20cm of the sills on the Tipo were completely shot due to water ingress, the rest of the sill was generally rust free and best kept on providing the ingress was stopped. Meantime aftermarket ones in primer have rusted from just being in the garage. As you say, once multiple interventions are necessary, it's too late without serious work, plus the remainder of the car needs to be protected asap.
Progress report!
it has been possible to cut away the three sill ends where frayed and to make up repair pieces. It was really the closing panels that had suffered. Plastic wheel arch protectors are all very well, but can act as mud traps! The other issue was the outer part of the stiffening plate under the passenger seat which needed attention as did a strange small (non structural) hole in the floor...easy to fix.
It is significant that the original "hard chewing gum" underseal (that is body colour painted) still stays in place, but of course when damaged allows corrosion to spread underneath it. Not bad really...only one other bit of welding done underneath (back of o/s rear wheel arch in a mud trap by the filler pipe 10 years ago!) and I think this is the first proper MOT fail in it's 24 year life!
It does have a mysterious oil leak from (I think) the area of the oil filter. No overnight drips , it appears only to leak under pressure, but with signs of quite a bit of oil being carried towards the back of the underside of the car. Great to keep rust at bay, but MOT man didn't like it, Any ideas what it might be apart from a leaky filter? It seems to come from near one of the indented hexagon bolts on the filter (pump??) housing.
 
Progress report!
it has been possible to cut away the three sill ends where frayed and to make up repair pieces. It was really the closing panels that had suffered. Plastic wheel arch protectors are all very well, but can act as mud traps! The other issue was the outer part of the stiffening plate under the passenger seat which needed attention as did a strange small (non structural) hole in the floor...easy to fix.
It is significant that the original "hard chewing gum" underseal (that is body colour painted) still stays in place, but of course when damaged allows corrosion to spread underneath it. Not bad really...only one other bit of welding done underneath (back of o/s rear wheel arch in a mud trap by the filler pipe 10 years ago!) and I think this is the first proper MOT fail in it's 24 year life!
It does have a mysterious oil leak from (I think) the area of the oil filter. No overnight drips , it appears only to leak under pressure, but with signs of quite a bit of oil being carried towards the back of the underside of the car. Great to keep rust at bay, but MOT man didn't like it, Any ideas what it might be apart from a leaky filter? It seems to come from near one of the indented hexagon bolts on the filter (pump??) housing.
Always a good idea to waxoyl or suchlike the repaired sections, both inside AND out, welds you can't see left untreated will rust again.
Oil leak, sump pan? Rear main seal?
 
Always a good idea to waxoyl or suchlike the repaired sections, both inside AND out, welds you can't see left untreated will rust again.
Oil leak, sump pan? Rear main seal?
yes, the new (& OLD!) sections will be waxoyled. I think the car had Dinitrol or similar sprayed in cavities (there are rubber plugs in places). I certainly sprayed waxoyl around without drilling holes when we bought the car!
I will clean off the oil on the underside of the engine & see what appears. The sump is a bit oily & the leak seems to be from the front face of the engine not (I hope) the rear main. It certainly looks as if it is blown about by the slipstream!. There is a bit of oily residue on the area of the N/s front by the head / block, but that may be a dribble from the cam cover, not a "real" leak.
 
For the oil leak diagnosis, get the area clean. Brake cleaner is good for this, as it washes stuff off, then evaporates. The environmental cost may be poor though, but using a degreaser and washing it off with water will be messy.
Then run it stationary, see if it leaks, and where. If nothing, go for a short run and have another look.
Oil tends to come from the highest point of the 'mess', although some can migrate a short distance upwards.
 
yes, the new (& OLD!) sections will be waxoyled. I think the car had Dinitrol or similar sprayed in cavities (there are rubber plugs in places). I certainly sprayed waxoyl around without drilling holes when we bought the car!
I will clean off the oil on the underside of the engine & see what appears. The sump is a bit oily & the leak seems to be from the front face of the engine not (I hope) the rear main. It certainly looks as if it is blown about by the slipstream!. There is a bit of oily residue on the area of the N/s front by the head / block, but that may be a dribble from the cam cover, not a "real" leak.
Sounds like you've got it sorted, hope the leak isn't something too drastic, good luck 🤞
 
For the oil leak diagnosis, get the area clean. Brake cleaner is good for this, as it washes stuff off, then evaporates. The environmental cost may be poor though, but using a degreaser and washing it off with water will be messy.
Then run it stationary, see if it leaks, and where. If nothing, go for a short run and have another look.
Oil tends to come from the highest point of the 'mess', although some can migrate a short distance upwards.
Thanks...tomorrows job!
D
 
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