Technical MK 2 Punto; turning over but not firing up at all

[Minkikid]

Hi guys and gals

I'm looking some of your Italian Wisdom, We have two MK2 Punto's in the family. My Sis 2004 Sport, and my mums 2000 1.2 active.

Both have been exceptionally reliable since new, and Im glad to report that.

However the issue is with my mums 2000 1.2 Active.

This has happened twice now in the space of two weeks; so it may be intermittent fault.

The car is turning over perfectly, no warning lights on the dash, key code disappears off, everything has normal but it just will not fire whatsoever. Having been a car man myself, I feel that that it is possibly an ignition problem, as I can hear the fuel pump engaging, but just no fire. Ive tried locking and unlocking i just to make sure it didnt immob itself.

She is a teacher and obv requires her car for work and I cant have the car letting her down.

A few points to note....It seems that this only happens in extreme colds (frost/ice/ - temps overnight). The car has been getting gradually a bit harder to start in the mornings, with full revs on the accelerator needed in order to get her going and there is often a puff of smoke when this happns.

My sis for instance, just starts with no throttle, in any coniditon.

when driving my mums car, there is also an engine management light flicking on / off consistently about every 4-5 seconds , if not a little longer. It has done this for quite some time (we are talkin a year) and thought it was always an electrical niggle rather than an issue.

Can anyone give me any advice as to where to start with this??

is there a common cold start problem...if th coldstart valve if there us one is gone, would the car not attempt to start I wouldve thought.

This is simply turning over and not firing at all. Funnily enough, last time this happened I wentout later on in the day to start it and it fired, when the temps had risen slightly

Much obliged for your help folks

Matt

 

[smokeyjoe03]

Had a similar problem with my 2000 mk2 1.2 8v, wouldn't start 1st time on cold mornings and instead of engine light my steering light would flicker.....1st port of call was to get the battery tested but everything seemed fine there. Couldn't figure it out for ages then after reading about how the power steering can fail due to a dying battery, we finally just replaced it and the problem just went away.

So my advice is try another battery, don't forget, the initial firing of the car is what takes its toll on the it the most, so it has to be at OPTIMUM performance. Make sure when your starting it all lights, heaters and radio are turned off too, puts less strain on the battery.

 

[rallycinq]

First you need to look at what is missing.

Check that you have a spark and fuel.

Then check the temp sensor is telling the truth about the actual temperature.

Final thought is a crank sensor issue. Has this problem got worse since a cambelt change?

Cheers

SPD

 

[Minkikid]

Cheers folks, it is not the battery. The battery I have tested and it is perfect, and I topped it up just to be sure.

The car has had a recent cambelt change, done by myself and a mate. Wasn't and overly difficult job. That was about 6-8months ago though and car has always been running fine since.

I did eventually get it started. I made sure all the lead where on properly, some felt a little loose. I also checked for fuel, and the sparkplugs where wet and smelling heavily of it.

I then checked for a spark and there was a spark coming through. However, I must mention that I believe I have been sold the wrong oil filter by my local motoer factors, as the oil filter seems to be weeping some oil, not a lot but it is definitely present on close inspection. Now, I believe that some oil has scattered onto the crankshaft pulley pickup/sensor. I cleaned this as it was a little oily and disconnected the plug and cleaned it also.

Is this a probably cause of the suddenly intermittent not starting...perhaps some oil has dripped or sprayed onto the pickjup therefore the car wont get a reading and wont start.

I will go to fiat and give them the chassis number and get the correct oil filter which should cure this issue.

Mind you, the car is runnnig fine now, however putyting my hand over the rear exhaust I can feel a slightly misfire on idle.

 

[Minkikid]

Rallycing, where abouts is the temp sender unit located, and how would I test if its telling the car fibbs about the temp when trying to do a cold start>?

 

[fingers99]

The oil filter is probably OK, but malfitted.

Proper way is to put a little oil on the sealing ring, tighten by hand (no tools!), warm the engine up and tighten again (by hand).

As the TDC sensor not working will result in no fuel past the injector and no spark and you have wet plugs, I'd be inclined to look at the ignition leads. The OE ones are well past their best at 4 years.

 

[Minkikid]

Thanks for the advice above ^^

I did not know that the TEDC sensor sill stop fuel getting through, that helps!

Yes, I'm sure your first instincts are to say its been illfitted, but when gonig to get the filter there where a few different types. I was given a quite a large filter...perhaos this is the wrong sort possibly for the older model

i always tighten my filters by hand, and put a sealing layer of oil on the o-ring. And never tighten with anything else but hand,

Im convinced it is the wrong filter

Leads me onto another question, are the genuine fiat ones worth buying, or are the pattern part ones jsut as good

and a rough pricer of both if anyone has them handy>?

 

[fingers99]

About £6. Providing their not cheapo rip off ones, there's little -- if anything -- in it. I think I pay a couple of squid for Halfords ones (with trade card).

 

[Minkikid]

Are you talking about leads or plugs??

I work for Halfords part-time, so shouldnt be a problem getting anything on trade

 

[fingers99]

Talking oil filters!

 

[Minkikid]

ah ha

Im just gonig to get the fiat filter anyways....was just asking is there much difference between the fiat genuine plug leads, versus say a cheaper pattern part? or is it much of a muchness

 

[fingers99]

ah ha

Im just gonig to get the fiat filter anyways....was just asking is there much difference between the fiat genuine plug leads, versus say a cheaper pattern part? or is it much of a muchness

Much of a muchness -- the substantial improvement is the silicon ones. They don't make the car go any faster, but last much longer.

 

[Noddy]

If the engine managment light is still coming on intermittantly then I suggest getting the fault codes read. Might be that a sensor is on the way out and the cold weather is making it worse.

 

[fingers99]

If the engine managment light is still coming on intermittantly then I suggest getting the fault codes read. Might be that a sensor is on the way out and the cold weather is making it worse.

Alternatively could be an intermittent misfire caused by ancient leads. I'd say, if the leads are more than 3 years old, change them anyway. Does no harm, is cheaper than a read, will be required sooner or later anyway.

 

[rallycinq]

Rallycing, where abouts is the temp sender unit located, and how would I test if its telling the car fibbs about the temp when trying to do a cold start>?

Think its in the inlet manifold. You should get a gradual reduction in resistance as temperature increases.

Cheers

SPD