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General Mild Hybrid Firefly is finally coming

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General Mild Hybrid Firefly is finally coming

Pointless, stupid hybrid system. Use a proper integrated system like the Prius all those years ago or what's the point? With all this time you'd think FCA could make a decent hybrid.
 
It may mean the 1.2 models will be dropping in price when the Hybrid is launched.

Try as I might, I can make no sense of FIAT's strapline (again):

The hybrid mobility invades all the streets,
with the unmistakable mood of Panda.

It's almost like it's either a lyric from a new bleak/dystopian Rush song or the beginning of a rhyme which ends:

But unless it's dirt-cheap and full of new toys
I can't see them selling the right-hander

The good news is that according to the FIAT website, the Samsung battery has passed all of their rigorous tests.

Form an orderly queue please.
 
Cutting edge stuff from Fiat?

I had a 2011 Citroen Berlingo van that had this same system, though it was a bit more advanced as it used capacitors rather than heavy batteries.
It did feel a bit odd when it cut out before you actually came to a stop, though the restarts were super quick/smooth.

Fiat seem to be making more of the seaweed seats than the hybrid system, obviously the old misdirection magicians trick!

They do seem to have fallen a long way behind other manufacturers this last 10 years or so.

Their platforms are all pretty old now, they're still plugging away with a 35 year old engine even though they've tried (and failed) to replace it at least once and now they've shown up to the party with an old hybrid system that isn't worth their time and effort.

As least in the old days they lead the way with common rail for a while (before they gave up and sold it to Bosch) and their Multiair system had some merits if a bit overly complicated compared to other variable valve systems.

What they give us now? A rubber belt and an engine from Brazil.
 
Goudrons said:
Cutting edge stuff from Fiat?

I had a 2011 Citroen Berlingo van that had this same system, though it was a bit more advanced as it used capacitors rather than heavy batteries.
It did feel a bit odd when it cut out before you actually came to a stop, though the restarts were super quick/smooth.

Fiat seem to be making more of the seaweed seats than the hybrid system, obviously the old misdirection magicians trick!

They do seem to have fallen a long way behind other manufacturers this last 10 years or so.

Their platforms are all pretty old now, they're still plugging away with a 35 year old engine even though they've tried (and failed) to replace it at least once and now they've shown up to the party with an old hybrid system that isn't worth their time and effort.

As least in the old days they lead the way with common rail for a while (before they gave up and sold it to Bosch) and their Multiair system had some merits if a bit overly complicated compared to other variable valve systems.

What they give us now? A rubber belt and an engine from Brazil.
Click to expand...

The engine seems to be okay so far no reported issues all through its only in the 500x currently
 
Tech info.
 

Attachments

  • Panda Mild Hybrid.png
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The Panda Nut said:
Reading the articles on this am I mistaken or do they say this car will have a 12v electric motor helping it along?
Click to expand...

So... the car doesn’t use a normal starter motor it has a 3.6KW 12V electric motor that spins the engine up to speed using the aux drive belt. When running the motor becomes a generator, charging a (tiny) 11Ah lithium battery. To put into context how tiny this is 11Ah is the same as 3 individual cells from a tesla battery, when a normal tesla battery is 7000 individual cells...

This gives enough power to turn the motor for a couple of minutes max and the energy used by the motor is about the same as the aircon compressor would take to run.

When you are coasting at speeds below 18mph the car can turn the engine off and use the motor to stop start the engine while still moving. This can save a little bit of fuel. The motor and battery combo however does not have enough power to give any significant boost to the engine, Fiat say it will help with acceleration but in essence all it would do is take the load of the aircon compressor at most it’s less than 5hp from the motor.

So it’s really complicated, heavy and expensive compared to normal cars....
 
The Pretender said:
Yes, it is mounted instead of a old-fashion Alternator.
This is not interesting at all, IMHO.

I'm looking forward to the Panda Sport, with hopefully the 120 hp 3T Firefly engine.
Click to expand...

I doubt it will happen. But, what I don't understand is why Fiat have not made a milder Turbo version of the 1.0 Firefly in the 90-100 bhp range.

So many other manufacturers have one. Ford 1.0 ecoboost tuned to 99 bhp, as well as 120, and more. Kia/Hyundai 1.0T at 99bhp and 120bhp, VW group with the 1.0TSi at 95bhp and 115bhp. Renault 1.0l TCe 100bhp. And all of them with torque that blows normally aspirate engines away, and from lower down the rev range.

Surely development costs would be minimal - as lower powered version of an existing engine.

For a manufacturer whose strength is small vehicles this seems a ridiculous oversight. 70bhp with a measly 102Nm torque at 3250rpm isn't going to cut it for 4x4 Pandas. Sure, they aren't the top models selling models, but they command bigger prices.

Something between the Firefly 70 and 120 bhp would be much more appropriate.
 
TinyTurbo said:
I doubt it will happen. But, what I don't understand is why Fiat have not made a milder Turbo version of the 1.0 Firefly in the 90-100 bhp range.

So many other manufacturers have one. Ford 1.0 ecoboost tuned to 99 bhp, as well as 120, and more. Kia/Hyundai 1.0T at 99bhp and 120bhp, VW group with the 1.0TSi at 95bhp and 115bhp. Renault 1.0l TCe 100bhp. And all of them with torque that blows normally aspirate engines away, and from lower down the rev range.

Surely development costs would be minimal - as lower powered version of an existing engine.

For a manufacturer whose strength is small vehicles this seems a ridiculous oversight. 70bhp with a measly 102Nm torque at 3250rpm isn't going to cut it for 4x4 Pandas. Sure, they aren't the top models selling models, but they command bigger prices.

Something between the Firefly 70 and 120 bhp would be much more appropriate.
Click to expand...


The 2020 Panda Sport is announced, but it is not clear what engine it will get.
"Sport" could also just be a equipment Level like, Lounge and so on.
And it could just have the same 70hp Hybrid engine.
Although i hope for at least a software tune-down version of the 120 hp T3 engine, same hardware, different Software.
 
It's nothing especially amazing as far as hybrid tech goes, but it's just nice to see something more subtantial than a new paint colour for the Panda (and 500) to keep the interest up whilst they put a longer term plan in place, probably with the help of Peugeot following the merger.

As is very well documented, an all-electric 500e is coming in the next few months, which is a completely new car on a new bespoke platform, so that'll be the big news (along with proper hybrid versions of the Jeep Renegade & Compass, which could easily be transfered onto the 500x). This just stops the 500 & Panda look quite so 'old'. What's not totally clear is whether the 1.2 engine will go completely? If it does they'll need to be very careful with pricing of the new Mild Hybrid, otherwise they'll probably find sales collapse, particularly on the Panda :(
 
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