Technical Low compression on cylinders 1 & 2

[Mistpjenkins]

I desperately need advice/help, anything!
Bought a 2012 fiat 500 pop from someone in March, 69k miles. There was some ticking sound but she said it was the exhaust and the mechanic had told her that (my mistake for not investigating). After a month or so, the car was struggling to start every now and then, then it turned into almost every day, and then it was 5-7 tried per start to get it to turn on. The car feels like it idles a lot when not moving, and often feels like it’s going to cut out - it never has, just really feels like it. It had always kinda done this but I’ve never owned a fiat and honestly thought it was just the way the model is.
So summary of the issues - car struggles to start and feels like it idles a lot when not moving and also occasionally makes a ticking noise when first accelerating after starting the car for the first time in a few hours.
I took it to a garage saying it was misfiring, they said it needed new leads, a coil pack and spark plugs.. but no warning lights and nothing showed up on a diagnostics test. they then did a compression test and said that cylinder 1 and 2 are running on low compression and I would need to have the engine stripped to diagnose the issue that’s causing that.
This was 2 weeks ago and the car was struggling to start and needed quite a few tries to get it going every single day. Since that Friday, the car has struggled to start once or twice and only taken one extra try to start on each occasion, but the garage only looked at it, didn’t fix anything. The car still idles and feels shaky but is struggling to start less (probably means nothing) but any advice on what it could be? What could need fixed? Ways to not have to strip the engine?? The car was £3000, £1200 trade in value and to strip the engine only is £500 alone.. HELP

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi

Its potentially overheated before.. and head gasket is compromised

Removing spark plugs is a cheap and easy diagnostic tool check for the colour..

Does the coolant level hold ok..?

 

[Mistpjenkins]

Hi

Its potentially overheated before.. and head gasket is compromised

Removing spark plugs is a cheap and easy diagnostic tool check for the colour..

Does the coolant level hold ok..?

It overheated once I think just after it started struggling but I sorted the coolant immediately and it was fine from then.
The colour of the spark plugs?
As far as I know, yes. There was an incident where after it overheated that first time, I topped it up and then on the way home I noticed ‘steam/smoke’ from the bonnet but no warning or anything on the gauge so I pulled over straight away and the coolant lid was off and some had spluttered out onto a hot surface and made the steam. I must have just closed it incorrectly bc it was very different from my old car. Since then, no overheating at all and I check the temp gauge like 80% of the time I’m driving just to be sure bc I’m terrified of something else going wrong

 

[jrkitching]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Sorry it's in such unfortunate circustances.

Given all the symptoms you're describing, if compression is down on cylinders 1 & 2, the most likely cause is that the head gasket has failed between the two cylinders. Valve or piston ring sealing issues usually only put the compression down in one cylinder only.

It overheated once

Once is all it takes.

Sadly this is a very common issue on the 1.2 engine after overheating.

Ways to not have to strip the engine??

There aren't any. If the HG has failed, it's only going to get worse, and the only chance of salvaging the engine is to stop using the car now. It might be fixable by just replacing the HG, or it might also need the head skimming, but if you keep driving it, the metal between the two cylinders will erode away and the engine will then basically be scrap.

If you're lucky, replacing the HG will fix the problem and if the £500 you've been quoted includes reassembly, then the total bill won't be much more than that. If it doesn't, it's an exorbitant amount just to pull the head and inspect. What kind of place did you take it to? Main dealer, independent Fiat specialist or general purpose garage.

Just be aware that once stripped down, you'll have little choice but to pay whatever repair cost the garage quote you, or sell the car to them for whatever price they're prepared to offer; you won't easily be able to take it anywhere else at that point.

IIRC @koalar had something very similar happen not long ago on a Panda where there was significant metal loss in the critical area between the cylinders and managed to ressurect what would otherwise have been a scrap engine using an improvised repair. However I doubt such an option would be available through the trade.

 

[Mistpjenkins]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Sorry it's in such unfortunate circustances.

Given all the symptoms you're describing, if compression is down on cylinders 1 & 2, the most likely cause is that the head gasket has failed between the two cylinders. Valve or piston ring sealing issues usually only put the compression down in one cylinder only.

Once is all it takes.

Sadly this is a very common issue on the 1.2 engine after overheating.

There aren't any. If the HG has failed, it's only going to get worse, and the only chance of salvaging the engine is to stop using the car now. It might be fixable by just replacing the HG, or it might also need the head skimming, but if you keep driving it, the metal between the two cylinders will erode away and the engine will then basically be scrap.

If you're lucky, replacing the HG will fix the problem and if the £500 you've been quoted includes reassembly, then the total bill won't be much more than that.

IIRC @koalar had something very similar happen not long ago on a Panda where there was significant metal loss in the critical area between the cylinders and managed to ressurect what would otherwise have been a scrap engine using an improvised repair. However I doubt such an option would be available through the trade.

Thank you for the welcome! Do you mean it will be scrap as in it won’t work at all anymore so the car won’t actually turn on? As long as I can get it to turn on and run then I can trade it in, that’s what they told me anyway. I don’t have another way to get to work it’s a new job that I only took because I got a car which enabled me to get to it.. I’m devastated.
Are you a mechanic or a fiat tech etc? Sorry if it sounds offensive, I don’t mean it like that - I just want to know how you know so much

 

[Baglady1990]

Thank you for the welcome! Do you mean it will be scrap as in it won’t work at all anymore so the car won’t actually turn on? As long as I can get it to turn on and run then I can trade it in, that’s what they told me anyway. I don’t have another way to get to work it’s a new job that I only took because I got a car which enabled me to get to it.. I’m devastated.
Are you a mechanic or a fiat tech etc? Sorry if it sounds offensive, I don’t mean it like that - I just want to know how you know so much

I’m so sorry! I was in your situation a couple of years ago!! I just paid 7500 for my 500 2 months later my engine was… well like yours! I had no warning lights not a single indication anything was wrong except issues with my coolant and difficulty starting ect. … if I was in your shoes knowing what I know now… trade the car in!!! As soon as you can!
Take the hit and just settle .. ok your loosing money! But you will get another car and you can then get to work

I opted for an engine swap from a company who were amazing club500italia in bury
Cost just over 500 and I’ve looked after my car like a new born ever since

But as I said I spent £7.500 on my 500 & being a limited Gucci model I was not prepared to part with her!
If it had just been my 500 pop I had before my Gucci … I’d have just traded it in!! No question!

 

[Mistpjenkins]

I’m so sorry! I was in your situation a couple of years ago!! I just paid 7500 for my 500 2 months later my engine was… well like yours! I had no warning lights not a single indication anything was wrong except issues with my coolant and difficulty starting ect. … if I was in your shoes knowing what I know now… trade the car in!!! As soon as you can!
Take the hit and just settle .. ok your loosing money! But you will get another car and you can then get to work

I opted for an engine swap from a company who were amazing club500italia in bury
Cost just over 500 and I’ve looked after my car like a new born ever since

But as I said I spent £7.500 on my 500 & being a limited Gucci model I was not prepared to part with her!
If it had just been my 500 pop I had before my Gucci … I’d have just traded it in!! No question!

I honestly would but I can’t get credit and I can’t get a new car for £1200 thank you for trying to help tho

 

[Baglady1990]

I honestly would but I can’t get credit and I can’t get a new car for £1200 thank you for trying to help tho

I would talk to them .. the only time a car salesman is actually interested in anything you have to say is when they think your going to make some money!
You have nothing else to loose & you may end up surprised!
For them your car will be a flip & trust me they would make a wedge on re sale ..

 

[Mistpjenkins]

I would talk to them .. the only time a car salesman is actually interested in anything you have to say is when they think your going to make some money!
You have nothing else to loose & you may end up surprised!
For them your car will be a flip & trust me they would make a wedge on re sale ..

Wait what do you mean take the hit and sell it or repair it?

 

[Baglady1990]

Wait what do you mean take the hit and sell it or repair it?

When I said take the hit I meant you will lose money trading the car in! Considering the purchase price compared to the trade in price £

As I said the dealership who potentially will take the car : they will in all probability repair the head gasket & any other issues and will or could sell the car once repaired for a lot more than they gave you at trade in!

 

[jrkitching]

Do you mean it will be scrap as in it won’t work at all anymore so the car won’t actually turn on?

Scrap as in the engine block and/or head will be damaged beyond repair, meaning the only option remaining will be to find a replacement engine. A properly reconditioned one will cost more than the car is worth, and a secondhand one is basically just another gamble (and in the current market, will likely cost a lot more than the £500 fitted that @baglady paid back in the day).

There is another option, and that is to sell the car privately 'as is', describing it honestly and fairly. As has been said, an enthusiast with the necessary skills and facilities might be able to repair this cheaply (<£100 for parts and perhaps a day's time), so it might sell for more than you might think, and in the current used car market, certainly more than the £1200 trade price you're being offered.

If the dealership who made that offer are planning to put it straight to auction, you can bet the farm they're expecting it to sell for more than that when the hammer falls.

The used car market is in a crazy place right now. £3000 is definitely at the cheaper end of what's currently being asked for a 10yr old 1.2 500.

 

[Mistpjenkins]

When I said take the hit I meant you will lose money trading the car in! Considering the purchase price compared to the trade in price £

As I said the dealership who potentially will take the car : they will in all probability repair the head gasket & any other issues and will or could sell the car once repaired for a lot more than they gave you at trade in!

Oh yeah the trade in price is £1200 and the part trade in Is £1700 but I can’t get car credit so the £1200 is the only option that I have

 

[Mistpjenkins]

Scrap as in the engine block and/or head will be damaged beyond repair, meaning the only option remaining will be to find a replacement engine. A properly reconditioned one will cost more than the car is worth, and a secondhand one is basically just another gamble.

There is another option, and that is to sell the car privately 'as is', describing it honestly and fairly. As has been said, an enthusiast with the necessary skills and facilities might be able to repair this cheaply (<£100 for parts and perhaps a day's time), so it might sell for more than you might think, and in the current used car market, certainly more than the £1200 trade in you're being offered.

But would it still run if it was damaged beyond repair? Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question but the dealership was taking it as it is as long as it runs, for auction so they didn’t care what the issue was, as long as it drives to the dealership and turns on.
That’s actually a good idea tbh.. I didn’t think of that, I’m gonna put some feelers out there and see how much I could get for it

 

[jrkitching]

But would it still run if it was damaged beyond repair

If you keep using it, the problem (poor starting & rough running) is only going to get worse. At some point, it'll either refuse to start, or (if the HG failure extends to the coolant passages in the cylinder head) blow out its coolant, potentially stranding you at the roadside.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I've just read through this thread and a lot of very good advice is being given you. These wee engines are very robust and can go on for absolutely ages if well looked after but they are well known to suffer cylinder head gasket problems if they are allowed to overheat and I think it's likely that this has probably happened before you bought it. We'll never know but someone may have administered some cooling system sealer (Barr's leaks or similar) which has temporarily stopped the leak - which would explain why it's not loosing coolant at this time? but if it overheated significantly then the head can distort which may have allowed the gasket to blow between No1 and No2 cylinders - which would account for the low compression figures obtained from those cylinders. In my experience it's most often that the gasket will blow at the timing belt end of these engines rather than at the flywheel end. Given your symptoms the head needs to come off for a look see and only then can the true extent of the problem be known. There may be other problems too which will only be found when it has been stripped and there is always the possibility, on an older car like this, that bolts and studs may shear as they are being undone - which adds to costs. The trouble is that once you start stripping it you are pretty much committed to carrying on until you've finished dismantling. Then it's never going to run again unless the stuff you find to be wrong is properly sorted and the whole thing is reassembled.

With the gasket blown between 1 & 2 cylinders - which seems very likely from what you are telling us - the engine will be difficult to start (as you now know) and this will get worse, but once started those two cylinders will probably fire when the engine is running fast, This will create a "fire lance" of very hot gasses traveling through this gap between the two cylinders which will eventually, maybe quite quickly, burn away more of the gasket and most likely some of the aluminium of the head itself until not enough compression can be created to fire the cylinders even at high revs. At this point you'll have an engine which is only running on 2 cylinders and will be virtually undriveable and will certainly fail an emmissions test so will fail it's MOT. Not only that but you'll also have ruined the head (it may be ruined already because you're still driving it) and then you're going to be hunting around scrap yards for another serviceable head (maybe £250 or thereabouts? I haven't bought one recently). One solution would be to do no further diagnostics on the existing engine and just get a second hand engine from a scrappie (vehicle dismantler) but this might actually turn out to be more expensive than repairing the existing one - lots of ancillaries (starter, alternator, etc, etc) to swap over between the old and new engine, so potentially more problem fixings to maybe break?

Basically you already have a car which should not be being driven and what you have to decide is whether to take the risk of commissioning the garage to repair it and whatever that may cost or immediately try to dispose of it for as much money as you can get. I quite like JRK's idea of trying to find an enthusiast to sell it to (and be honest with your description) Doing a head gasket on one of these is very "doable" for a competent home mechanic and a good quality (Reinz maybe?) gasket set can be had for around £60 to £80. I did the one on our old Panda over a week end and I took lots of tea breaks and didn't hurry at all. The big unknown is the head condition but they will often respond to having a machine shop take a truing cut over the mating face (called skimming) which is about half the price, or less, than another head. If I was a lot younger I'd be biting your hand off to get my hands on it!

As far as the dealer goes, in my day if we bought in a car like this - and we'd only have entertained it with a problem like this if it had really "straight" bodywork - we would be giving an absolute rock bottom price for it and moving it on at what we paid for it plus a small premium to one of the small workshops in the area who we knew and they would repair it and sell it on. There are no "free breakfasts" to be had at a dealer, it's all about the end profit on the deal. So if you are buying a really expensive car the dealer may, in effect, discount some of the profit on the new purchase to artificially inflate the price offered for the trade in to "hook" you in on the deal, but at this level there's nothing to play with so the dealer is going to give you as little as possible - it's not the way I'd go with this. What sort of workshop is the car with at this time? is it a main dealer or an independent Fiat/Alfa specialist or maybe a general repair workshop? If you have one near you it's likely the Fiat indy will be the best bet as they will be undercutting main agent prices by a measurable margin and also they will know this engine inside out (it's a very common engine used in many cars) so will be less likely to run into something they're not expecting so "extras" are less likely than with a general workshop.

I'm so sorry I don't have a magic wand I can wave to make your problems go away, you're in a horrid position which boils down to just deciding am I going to get it repaired which might cost around the £500 they've quoted you - if nothing catastrophic goes wrong with the strip down. Or do I just take the trade in offer which is a set figure so I know how much I'm loosing for certain. I think I'd be stopping driving it right now, tonight, in the hope that no serious damage has yet been done and I'd put it on Gumtree and see what "crawls out of the woodwork" That way you're not causing any more degradation of the engine and, if nothing comes of the Gumtree ad, (I like Gumtree whidh is why I mention it. There are other options of course) and you decide to go for the repair the engine is going to be no more damaged than it is right now?

Hope that is helpful? By the way although well retired now, I worked my earlier life as a mechanic and I'm City and Guilds qualified and still maintain my own and my children's cars (children now grown up and fled the nest of course. Good luck. Do let us know how it all pans out please.

 

[Mistpjenkins]

I've just read through this thread and a lot of very good advice is being given you. These wee engines are very robust and can go on for absolutely ages if well looked after but they are well known to suffer cylinder head gasket problems if they are allowed to overheat and I think it's likely that this has probably happened before you bought it. We'll never know but someone may have administered some cooling system sealer (Barr's leaks or similar) which has temporarily stopped the leak - which would explain why it's not loosing coolant at this time? but if it overheated significantly then the head can distort which may have allowed the gasket to blow between No1 and No2 cylinders - which would account for the low compression figures obtained from those cylinders. In my experience it's most often that the gasket will blow at the timing belt end of these engines rather than at the flywheel end. Given your symptoms the head needs to come off for a look see and only then can the true extent of the problem be known. There may be other problems too which will only be found when it has been stripped and there is always the possibility, on an older car like this, that bolts and studs may shear as they are being undone - which adds to costs. The trouble is that once you start stripping it you are pretty much committed to carrying on until you've finished dismantling. Then it's never going to run again unless the stuff you find to be wrong is properly sorted and the whole thing is reassembled.

With the gasket blown between 1 & 2 cylinders - which seems very likely from what you are telling us - the engine will be difficult to start (as you now know) and this will get worse, but once started those two cylinders will probably fire when the engine is running fast, This will create a "fire lance" of very hot gasses traveling through this gap between the two cylinders which will eventually, maybe quite quickly, burn away more of the gasket and most likely some of the aluminium of the head itself until not enough compression can be created to fire the cylinders even at high revs. At this point you'll have an engine which is only running on 2 cylinders and will be virtually undriveable and will certainly fail an emmissions test so will fail it's MOT. Not only that but you'll also have ruined the head (it may be ruined already because you're still driving it) and then you're going to be hunting around scrap yards for another serviceable head (maybe £250 or thereabouts? I haven't bought one recently). One solution would be to do no further diagnostics on the existing engine and just get a second hand engine from a scrappie (vehicle dismantler) but this might actually turn out to be more expensive than repairing the existing one - lots of ancillaries (starter, alternator, etc, etc) to swap over between the old and new engine, so potentially more problem fixings to maybe break?

Basically you already have a car which should not be being driven and what you have to decide is whether to take the risk of commissioning the garage to repair it and whatever that may cost or immediately try to dispose of it for as much money as you can get. I quite like JRK's idea of trying to find an enthusiast to sell it to (and be honest with your description) Doing a head gasket on one of these is very "doable" for a competent home mechanic and a good quality (Reinz maybe?) gasket set can be had for around £60 to £80. I did the one on our old Panda over a week end and I took lots of tea breaks and didn't hurry at all. The big unknown is the head condition but they will often respond to having a machine shop take a truing cut over the mating face (called skimming) which is about half the price, or less, than another head. If I was a lot younger I'd be biting your hand off to get my hands on it!

As far as the dealer goes, in my day if we bought in a car like this - and we'd only have entertained it with a problem like this if it had really "straight" bodywork - we would be giving an absolute rock bottom price for it and moving it on at what we paid for it plus a small premium to one of the small workshops in the area who we knew and they would repair it and sell it on. There are no "free breakfasts" to be had at a dealer, it's all about the end profit on the deal. So if you are buying a really expensive car the dealer may, in effect, discount some of the profit on the new purchase to artificially inflate the price offered for the trade in to "hook" you in on the deal, but at this level there's nothing to play with so the dealer is going to give you as little as possible - it's not the way I'd go with this. What sort of workshop is the car with at this time? is it a main dealer or an independent Fiat/Alfa specialist or maybe a general repair workshop? If you have one near you it's likely the Fiat indy will be the best bet as they will be undercutting main agent prices by a measurable margin and also they will know this engine inside out (it's a very common engine used in many cars) so will be less likely to run into something they're not expecting so "extras" are less likely than with a general workshop.

I'm so sorry I don't have a magic wand I can wave to make your problems go away, you're in a horrid position which boils down to just deciding am I going to get it repaired which might cost around the £500 they've quoted you - if nothing catastrophic goes wrong with the strip down. Or do I just take the trade in offer which is a set figure so I know how much I'm loosing for certain. I think I'd be stopping driving it right now, tonight, in the hope that no serious damage has yet been done and I'd put it on Gumtree and see what "crawls out of the woodwork" That way you're not causing any more degradation of the engine and, if nothing comes of the Gumtree ad, (I like Gumtree whidh is why I mention it. There are other options of course) and you decide to go for the repair the engine is going to be no more damaged than it is right now?

Hope that is helpful? By the way although well retired now, I worked my earlier life as a mechanic and I'm City and Guilds qualified and still maintain my own and my children's cars (children now grown up and fled the nest of course. Good luck. Do let us know how it all pans out please.

Thank you so much for your response, I really appreciate it. I mean the £500 is just to strip down, then the replacement parts, the labour for those repairs then the rebuild.. we’re looking at around £1500 by the sounds of it .
I just don’t how in the 2 weeks since it was really bad, it’s been running almost perfectly fine.. it’s so confusing bc it does have such a big issue.
Is it possible that the garage I was at performed a dud compression test??
The dealership I was going to trade it into was Arnold Clark which is Fiat. They were gonna buy it for £1200 as is, and said it would just go to an auction. If I trade it in for a finance deal with them, I get an extra £500 but I can’t get finance with my credit so it’s not an option for me sadly.
I really want to stop driving it because I don’t want it to stop running but if I don’t have a car, I will literally have to resign from my one month old job because there is no other way for me to get there

 

[varesecrazy]

Back to basics:

How many times have you had to top.up the coolant?

How many total miles have you driven?

That will help us appreciate the current situation

 

[Mistpjenkins]

Back to basics:

How many times have you had to top.up the coolant?

How many total miles have you driven?

That will help us appreciate the current situation

I bought it in March and I think I’ve done about 400 miles since . Only topped it up once since then but I don’t know how low it was when I got it tbh

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thank you so much for your response, I really appreciate it. I mean the £500 is just to strip down, then the replacement parts, the labour for those repairs then the rebuild.. we’re looking at around £1500 by the sounds of it .
I just don’t how in the 2 weeks since it was really bad, it’s been running almost perfectly fine.. it’s so confusing bc it does have such a big issue.
Is it possible that the garage I was at performed a dud compression test??
The dealership I was going to trade it into was Arnold Clark which is Fiat. They were gonna buy it for £1200 as is, and said it would just go to an auction. If I trade it in for a finance deal with them, I get an extra £500 but I can’t get finance with my credit so it’s not an option for me sadly.
I really want to stop driving it because I don’t want it to stop running but if I don’t have a car, I will literally have to resign from my one month old job because there is no other way for me to get there

Strewth! £500 just for the strip down! They are definitely "having a laugh". For a competent person with full workshop facilities and power tools etc this has to be less than 2 hours work. (probably at around £60 to £80 per hour? in a smaller workshop) I hope you haven't agreed anything with them yet? If it's still driveable you need to get it out of their grasp.

Pity you're not down here in Edinburgh as I could recommend at least a couple of garages who would do this for you economically. Anyone here on the forum who knows of a good small garage up there in the Aberdeen area?

FIAT Scotland have a section in the "clubs and events" section: https://www.fiatforum.com/forums/fiat-scotland.330/ but it seems to be a "read only"? I met some of their members a few years back at Hopetoun House on a Scottish/Italian cars day and they were very nice and helpful people - any of you from up that way who could help?

A big dealership like AC are not going to be at all interested in doing anything with the car except trying to recover whatever they give you for it through an auction or other trade contact, they'll have no interest in trying to repair it for resale - at 10 years old it's really too old for them to be interested in it as a stock item anyway. To them the car is worth next to nothing so they've got to make the money on selling you another car. When you think deeply about this it means basically you're going to loose seriously on any deal. I still think it's worth giving Gumtree, or the like, a go and then, if successful, you'll not have the millstone of your broken car to contend with. An extra £500 if you take finance with them? Finance deals don't come FOC and they are not "giving" you £500 for nothing. It's going to be clawed back in the deal. Also beware the terms and conditions of in house finance deals, they often tie you into stuff you're better without - look carefully at what the end of contract conditions are (byback terms etc). If you can get one, a bank loan can actually work out cheaper in the long run, You just have to do the sums. Oh, by the way, same comments about aftermarket warranties. If they are giving it to you for free then Ok take it. But if you have to buy it then generally I don't think they are economic. Far too many things excluded when you start reading the small print on most of them.

 

[Mistpjenkins]

Strewth! £500 just for the strip down! They are definitely "having a laugh". For a competent person with full workshop facilities and power tools etc this has to be less than 2 hours work. (probably at around £60 to £80 per hour? in a smaller workshop) I hope you haven't agreed anything with them yet? If it's still driveable you need to get it out of their grasp.

Pity you're not down here in Edinburgh as I could recommend at least a couple of garages who would do this for you economically. Anyone here on the forum who knows of a good small garage up there in the Aberdeen area?

FIAT Scotland have a section in the "clubs and events" section: https://www.fiatforum.com/forums/fiat-scotland.330/ but it seems to be a "read only"? I met some of their members a few years back at Hopetoun House on a Scottish/Italian cars day and they were very nice and helpful people - any of you from up that way who could help?

A big dealership like AC are not going to be at all interested in doing anything with the car except trying to recover whatever they give you for it through an auction or other trade contact, they'll have no interest in trying to repair it for resale - at 10 years old it's really too old for them to be interested in it as a stock item anyway. To them the car is worth next to nothing so they've got to make the money on selling you another car. When you think deeply about this it means basically you're going to loose seriously on any deal. I still think it's worth giving Gumtree, or the like, a go and then, if successful, you'll not have the millstone of your broken car to contend with. An extra £500 if you take finance with them? Finance deals don't come FOC and they are not "giving" you £500 for nothing. It's going to be clawed back in the deal. Also beware the terms and conditions of in house finance deals, they often tie you into stuff you're better without - look carefully at what the end of contract conditions are (byback terms etc). If you can get one, a bank loan can actually work out cheaper in the long run, You just have to do the sums. Oh, by the way, same comments about aftermarket warranties. If they are giving it to you for free then Ok take it. But if you have to buy it then generally I don't think they are not economic. Far too many things excluded when you start reading the small print on most of them.

I know, it’s an absolute joke.. 4 hours labour at £126p/h. Disgusting! I just thought a fiat mechanic was my best bet . I can’t even get a bank loan, my credit is absolute shot and although I’ve been desperately trying to pay off everything and anything I can for the last year, I can’t seem to get anywhere with it, so I have literally zero borrowing options . Even those loan shark websites where you borrow £100 and pay back £200 don’t accept me.. I’m devastated and stressed out of my nut! The only local garage that was recommended to me was the one I took it to in the first place.. so I don’t have any more trustworthy places to go