Technical Latest Tipo Disaster Advice Required

[thepottleflump]

Hi Chaps well the Tipo project moves forwards in one way and backward in another.

After following Sumplugs excellent advice the manifold stud was removed and replaced with relative ease and the new downpipe fitted without any major headaches. Stud remover tools definately the way to go. All going well and the time arrives to start the engine

I turned the key and the engine spluttered into life, ran for about 5 seconds and then spluttered and stalled as if fuel starvation. It now won't start ARGHHHHHHH. Turns over on the key but no attempt to start whatsoever.

I've been wondering about a couple of things.

1) I presume these cars (TIPO GT 1993) don't have alarms/immoblisers that would cut the fuel supply. There is a little dome near the mirror as if for a remote control. I can't hear the fuel pump when turning key to position 1, but it been a few weeks since I last started the car that I can't remember if this is normal or not.

2)Could a dodgy lambda sensor cause this and is there any way to test it other than by putting my hand in my pocket? The lambda sensor was removed from the old exhaust and transferred to new. It is possible that it has failed by being removed and fitted to the new exhaust. I would hope the engine would default to cold start in the event of a dodgy sensor but who knows?

I must say I'm not great at diagnosing exact engine faults, and not helped by having nobody around to help turn the engine over while I check for sparks etc.

All spark plugs have been recently replaced but the cars been sitting on ramps for probably 3 weeks now. If anyone could offer some advice it would be appreciated. A run down of check this, do that is always useful.

Thanks and may the Tipo live again with some help!!

 

[custard]

if you turn the key till the igntion light comes on you should hear the fuel pump buzzing

 

[thepottleflump]

Cheers custard, must say I should have done that before. Just jumped outside, turned the key and put my shell like to the rear arch. There is a nice healthy buzz coming from the fuel pump. I need to check for a healthy spark I think.

 

[sumplug]

Cheers custard, must say I should have done that before. Just jumped outside, turned the key and put my shell like to the rear arch. There is a nice healthy buzz coming from the fuel pump. I need to check for a healthy spark I think.

Sounds like it ran from what was in the fuel line. Take the fuel pipe off, and see if its generating fuel. Also you could squirt some brake cleaner into the throttle housing. It should try to start. If not, its an electrical problem. Look at the crank sensor and fuel relay. It still should start with a faulty lamba.

Andy.

 

[thepottleflump]

Sounds like it ran from what was in the fuel line. Take the fuel pipe off, and see if its generating fuel. Also you could squirt some brake cleaner into the throttle housing. It should try to start. If not, its an electrical problem. Look at the crank sensor and fuel relay. It still should start with a faulty lamba.

Andy.

I'd agree that was my thought that it ran from fuel already in the line, where is the fuel relay on these cars? I'd also thought crank sensor after a similar issue with the Uno. Unfortunately there don't appear to be any manuals which cover the 2.0.
Cheers

 

[sumplug]

I'd agree that was my thought that it ran from fuel already in the line, where is the fuel relay on these cars? I'd also thought crank sensor after a similar issue with the Uno. Unfortunately there don't appear to be any manuals which cover the 2.0.
Cheers

Fuel relay is either by the fuse box, or on the bulkhead in engine bay. If the fuel relay does not get a signal from the crank sensor, it wont pulse the injectors, so car will not start. Seeing that it ran for a few seconds, look at the fuel first.
Errrr.... you have got fuel in the tank? Pump might be blocked for example. Try the brake cleaner trick. Can also use Bradex Easy Start [also known as "start you bastard" in australia, honest !! ].

Andy.

 

[thepottleflump]

Well I've used some HT Lead spark plug testers, the type you pop between the lead and the plug. I'm not appearing to get a spark based on these little babies, not a glimmer when turning over the engine, which makes me a bit confused since the car did start for a very short time.

I'm wondering if its the crank sensor has given up the ghost as this is the very same problem I had with the UT. The flywheel sensor went duff and wasn't telling the ECU that the engine was turning over and therefore not sparking or delivering fuel. It looks fairly easy to get to by removing front offside wheel and plastic arch cover. Trouble is it's a £45 part by the looks of things so don't really want to buy on the off chance that it will solve the problem.....

There fuel in the tank (well the guage comes up) and I've already tried start you bastard but haven't had a great deal of success swearing at the car

 

[dazzo666]

Is The Crank Sensor The Same As A 1.4??

 

[thepottleflump]

Not according to shop4parts, listed as different parts numbers, will also check ePer - no definately different.

 

[dazzo666]

Not according to shop4parts, listed as different parts numbers, will also check ePer - no definately different.

just a thort mate as i have a few kicking around and i owe you one for the handle.....

 

[thepottleflump]

Cheers Daz, shame I can't get hold of one just to try, £55 is a fair amount of money to spend on the off chance it may work. Well I'll do some more tests over the weekend to try and track down the fault. One thing the RAC chap did to test the sensor last time was connect a multimeter and test if it pulsed when cranking the engine. I think he did this on voltage but can't really remember. I know the sensor registered a resistance in the correct range so testing on resistance alone can be a little misleading. Can anyone point me in the right direction for carrying out this pulsing test.

 

[sumplug]

Cheers Daz, shame I can't get hold of one just to try, £55 is a fair amount of money to spend on the off chance it may work. Well I'll do some more tests over the weekend to try and track down the fault. One thing the RAC chap did to test the sensor last time was connect a multimeter and test if it pulsed when cranking the engine. I think he did this on voltage but can't really remember. I know the sensor registered a resistance in the correct range so testing on resistance alone can be a little misleading. Can anyone point me in the right direction for carrying out this pulsing test.

How many wires has the sensor cable got? 2 or 3? 3 wired ones are shielded with an extra wire.

Andy.

 

[thepottleflump]

How many wires has the sensor cable got? 2 or 3? 3 wired ones are shielded with an extra wire.

Andy.

Just had a look this is a 2 wire sensor (2-pins on the connector)

 

[sumplug]

Just had a look this is a 2 wire sensor (2-pins on the connector)

Connect a Voltmeter between the 2 terminals leading to the crank sensor and crank the engine. It should read about 0.7 volts although most good sesnsors will get upto 1.4 volts or more. This will prove a signal is being produced.

Andy.

 

[thepottleflump]

Well I've tested the crank sensor and definately pulsing on cranking the engine. Further investigate indicates no spark from the coil and you can smell fuel so sort of assuming that fuel is making its way into the engine. Next test is to replace the coil and see where we go from there.

 

[thepottleflump]

Update The Tipo Lives!!!

Yep the Tipo is now alive and well. By luck I found a brand new coil on ebay for £15 arrived just before lunch today so popped out there, fitted, turn key and she's alive.

Couple of bits to do then I'll pop down the test centre for the MOT.

 

[sumplug]

Good for you but bad for this thread. Its now nearly over, just the MOT to talk about !!

Andy.

 

[thepottleflump]

Well I gave the Tipo a little clean and polish the afternoon. Was quite a long job, not perfect but it's got a reasonable shine rather than the faded red look. All the crap on the drive came out of my wifes Saxos wheel arches, they were caked.

 

[sumplug]

Well I gave the Tipo a little clean and polish the afternoon. Was quite a long job, not perfect but it's got a reasonable shine rather than the faded red look. All the crap on the drive came out of my wifes Saxos wheel arches, they were caked.

Well, there was a car under there after all!!
Looking good.
So you have bought another Strada Abarth as a donar car. I must start mine asap. Btw, where did you get the solex overhaul kit and misab plates from?

Andy.

 

[thepottleflump]

Hi Andy,

Sourthern Carbs - http://www.southerncarbs.co.uk/index.htm
&
Eurocarb ltd - http://www.racecar.co.uk/dellorto/

They'll be able to sort you out with the bits you need.

I'm currently planning on stripping the Strada and then getting all the paint stripped, repairing any rust, and respray. Want to rebuild the engine, Guy Croft seems to be the man for Fiat Twin-cams although not sure my budget can really stretch that far and not sure if I could really tackle it myself, having said that I now have 2 engines since I picked up a shed as a donor just incase. Probably a little stupid and I haven't really got space fot it. The Tipo will probably have to go as soon as it gets an MOT.

So do you like the website then?