Technical Jumpy and jerky running

[homeward]

You could be right there!

That sounds plausible, but thinking about it, is it not be better for the resistance to be higher, therefore the older lambda has a higher or 'better' ohms reading meaning the newer lambda is the fault?

Correct me if that makes no sense or is totally incorrect

To say I have an engineering degree, I just can't get my head around that one... -- you may, however, find this page enlightening... -- oh (edit), and this one...!

Would you be leaning towards a second new lambda aswell then to replace the 'tardis' one

Almost to the point of falling over....

Three reasons:

1. You can compare old-new with new-new: i.e. is the resistance the same; does it cause the same error?
2. You have three lambdas to play with, to see which combo works best -- especially if you can finally get their voltages plotted as live data.
3. As they used to say on Antiques Roadshow, "they're worth more as a pair" -- and I just have a gut feeling that two new (hopefully identical) ones may work better together than an odd mix.

 

[homeward]

What type of sensor is it? Does the ecu sense resistance or voltage from the lambda sensor? If it is resistance, it will probably be based on resistance change rather than absolute value. Iirc, it's voltage, so not sure of the value of the resistance measurement.

Edit: ignore me, tired, read back, see you're checking heater resistance now.

You were right, though: it is voltage... -- I think KRaikkonenNo1 is only checking resistances to while away the time until he has a way of measuring the voltages (and it's as good a way of testing them as any -- if not the best...).

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

What type of sensor is it? Does the ecu sense resistance or voltage from the lambda sensor? If it is resistance, it will probably be based on resistance change rather than absolute value. Iirc, it's voltage, so not sure of the value of the resistance measurement.

Edit: ignore me, tired, read back, see you're checking heater resistance now.

Ahh was just about to submit my reply

Yes heater resistance - would you care to say your an expert on lambda readings and diagnose the fault

 

[homeward]

Yes heater resistance - would you care to say your an expert on lambda readings and diagnose the fault

Glad to see you're still smiling!

Problems like this drive me batty (which is why the ignition circuit of my poor old classic Panda is currently in many bits...).

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

To say I have an engineering degree, I just can't get my head around that one... -- you may, however, find this page enlightening... -- oh (edit), and this one...!



Almost to the point of falling over....

Three reasons:

1. You can compare old-new with new-new: i.e. is the resistance the same; does it cause the same error?
2. You have three lambdas to play with, to see which combo works best -- especially if you can finally get their voltages plotted as live data.
3. As they used to say on Antiques Roadshow, "they're worth more as a pair" -- and I just have a gut feeling that two new (hopefully identical) ones may work better together than an odd mix.

Ill give the links a go in the morning when my eyes and brain have had a break from all this lambda talk

Ok they are very convincing reasons, I can feel my wallet getting lighter again!

I think I'm on the same page as you when it comes to doing things in pairs, ocd with car parts has been a problem of mine (unfortunately for my wallet)!

Next step is to wait for my Bluetooth elm to arrive soon, get that set up for live data - analyse EVEN more, and then looks like another new lambda :thumbup:

Ahh you gotta keep smiling, I'm only young so I'm sure the frustration will kick in over the years after many many more problems!

Poor Panda

Thanks for the help!

 

[oldhammer]

Glad to see you're still smiling!

Problems like this drive me batty (which is why the ignition circuit of my poor old classic Panda is currently in many bits...).

Vandal..

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

Very interesting update, have just driven my car for second time since swapping my new lambda to the post cat position -

Was driving along plodding along at about 28mph when suddenly I looked down and the eml came on, I thought owe a breakthrough as the eml doesn't usually come on after I've swapped them before - I parked up and read the code and voila it was preheating resistance BELOW catalyser!

NEVER before have I had a below catalyser code..so this means it has followed my new lambda (from pre to post fault)

So does this confirm that the new lambda from eurocarcare is faulty?
homeward - Could you link me to the lambda that you purchased from Mick to see if it is the same as this one?

Thanks

P.s. The code is P1141 btw

 

[Ziggy122]

Very interesting update, have just driven my car for second time since swapping my new lambda to the post cat position -

Was driving along plodding along at about 28mph when suddenly I looked down and the eml came on, I thought owe a breakthrough as the eml doesn't usually come on after I've swapped them before - I parked up and read the code and voila it was preheating resistance BELOW catalyser!

NEVER before have I had a below catalyser code..so this means it has followed my new lambda (from pre to post fault)

So does this confirm that the new lambda from eurocarcare is faulty?
@homeward - Could you link me to the lambda that you purchased from Mick to see if it is the same as this one?

Thanks

P.s. The code is P1141 btw

So its gone from pre cat heater to post cat heater

This then rules out - the cars wiring loom been at fault, the ECU having a spaz, the cat not been faulty - and just a case of a new sensor

ECP have a NGK or bosch cant remember lambda for £50 notes IIRC

Ziggy

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

So its gone from pre cat heater to post cat heater

This then rules out - the cars wiring loom been at fault, the ECU having a spaz, the cat not been faulty - and just a case of a new sensor

ECP have a NGK or bosch cant remember lambda for £50 notes IIRC

Ziggy

Yes it does rule them out - I have just contacted big Mick at eurocarcare informing him that the lambda seems to have failed almost straight away, I will await his reply,

I went for eurocarcare lambda as they sell quality parts and thought eurocarparts one might be universal and not so good?

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

Had a swift reply from Big Mick at ecc, and he decided it would be best to send a new lambda sensor out!

How nice is that!?

 

[homeward]

So does this confirm that the new lambda from eurocarcare is faulty?
homeward - Could you link me to the lambda that you purchased from Mick to see if it is the same as this one?

This one -- but I only paid £60 + VAT for each (and bought a pair). Made by NTK.

Had a swift reply from Big Mick at ecc, and he decided it would be best to send a new lambda sensor out!

How nice is that!?

It's why I always try and get my parts from Big Mick (and, yes, it does look like you got a dodgy one...). :worship:

What brand is your sensor? I seem to remember having a discussion with Mick about the NTK ones never having any problems (which is why I didn't buy the slightly cheaper one he offered me -- but I can't remember who they were made by...)?! :chin:

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

This one -- but I only paid £60 + VAT for each (and bought a pair). Made by NTK.



It's why I always try and get my parts from Big Mick (and, yes, it does look like you got a dodgy one...). :worship:

What brand is your sensor? I seem to remember having a discussion with Mick about the NTK ones never having any problems (which is why I didn't buy the slightly cheaper one he offered me -- but I can't remember who they were made by...)?! :chin:

http://www.eurocarcare.net/fuel-management/ecc46455802-lambda-sensor.html

That is the one I got, it says NTK/NGK but I'm sure it came in a different branded box..I will have to see when I'm at home

Hopefully this new one that arrives works ok and it was just a faulty lambda and not a faulty batch or moody make of lambda

 

[homeward]

http://www.eurocarcare.net/fuel-management/ecc46455802-lambda-sensor.html

That is the one I got, it says NTK/NGK but I'm sure it came in a different branded box..I will have to see when I'm at home

Hopefully this new one that arrives works ok and it was just a faulty lambda and not a faulty batch or moody make of lambda

Good luck! :hug:

Just found this in an old email from Mick:

We tend to stick with either NTK which are Top quality or Febi Bilstein which as yet have caused us no problems but are a bit cheaper.

NTK OZA675-EE1 £80.61

FEBI 26297 £50.05

Both to order and VAT inclusive.

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

Good luck! :hug:

Just found this in an old email from Mick:

Thanks!

Yeah that's what it is - Febi Bilstein, came in a red bilstein box! Only time will tell and hopefully it is ok,

I'm busy all of next week on an away training course so won't get to fit the sensor until then..

Fingers crossed :thumbup:

Oh and p.s. - off topic but, do you leave your Bluetooth elm connected in the fuse box all the time or just when you use it?

 

[homeward]

Oh and p.s. - off topic but, do you leave your Bluetooth elm connected in the fuse box all the time or just when you use it?

Yup: just left there... -- so really handy; and available every time I drive the car (e.g. when I was checking the advance, yesterday, for someone...).

The one I have switches off a couple of minutes after the ignition's turned off (much like my dashcam); and then comes back on when the engine starts.

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

Yup: just left there... -- so really handy; and available every time I drive the car (e.g. when I was checking the advance, yesterday, for someone...).

The one I have switches off a couple of minutes after the ignition's turned off (much like my dashcam); and then comes back on when the engine starts.

Great, I've left mine in now but not sure whether it turns off (sure it will do)...my dash cam does that too

Haven't had a detailed look yet but had a quick go with the torque app - lambdas look normal tbh, one was fluctuating and other was a solid line..more testing needed

Thanks!

 

[homeward]

Great, I've left mine in now but not sure whether it turns off (sure it will do)...my dash cam does that too

Haven't had a detailed look yet but had a quick go with the torque app - lambdas look normal tbh, one was fluctuating and other was a solid line..more testing needed

Are there any lights on the dongle? Mine has a fetching blue one, when its on....

So, if Torque will do it, why won't MES? (Have you seen if MES will also connect via Bluetooth...?) :bang:

As you say: that sounds completely "normal" -- so I wonder if it's just the pre-heater element that's fubared...? Which, of course, would mean that your cat is fine...! :woot:

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

Are there any lights on the dongle? Mine has a fetching blue one, when its on....

So, if Torque will do it, why won't MES? (Have you seen if MES will also connect via Bluetooth...?) :bang:

As you say: that sounds completely "normal" -- so I wonder if it's just the pre-heater element that's fubared...? Which, of course, would mean that your cat is fine...! :woot:

Yeah there is 3 I think - red and orange I think, need to have a closer look

Exactly my thoughts! I haven't yet although I know MES lists elm 327 Bluetooth in their compatible devices list

Yes I do wonder as that would prove why the resistance was a lot lower than the other when I tested it with the multimeter,

Woop woop! I hope your right there

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

Update on this - cars been on a 200 mile trip and the problem is well and truly still there -- and this is after its got 2 'new' lambdas in from eurocarcare..

The code it's giving now is P1141 again which is post cat lambda (which is the older of the new lambdas - the one suspected to be faulty),

So next step is to swap out the post cat lambda for one of the old lambdas that I have removed previously...

Will report back after another 200 mile trip

 

[oldhammer]

Update on this - cars been on a 200 mile trip and the problem is well and truly still there -- and this is after its got 2 'new' lambdas in from eurocarcare..

The code it's giving now is P1141 again which is post cat lambda (which is the older of the new lambdas - the one suspected to be faulty),

So next step is to swap out the post cat lambda for one of the old lambdas that I have removed previously...

Will report back after another 200 mile trip

If it is still doing it after new sensor's..I'd be looking into replacing the cat..or looking at the
Wiring to the sensor's..
I'd pop into a garage and bung them a tenner to do an emissions test..