Technical Insufficient oil pressure warning

[theGman]

Hi, two days ago I got the amber 'insufficient oil pressure' warning while doing about 60mph not sure if eml light came on too, it all happened so fast. The engine started over revving, I stopped in layby within seconds. I got my motorhome recovered to a FIAT professional garage where they said the engine was probably dead and would a new one fitted. Not sure if they done any tests, they just suggested I get recovered to a local garage as I was abot 300 miles from home. Would jumping in and changing engine be the first choice?

 

[RalphM]

When you stopped did the engine continue revving on it's own? if so how did you
stop it? were there clouds of smoke?

 

[theGman]

Hi, the engine stopped without any over run, the over revving stopped as soon as ignition turned off. There was no unusual smoke from the exhaust.

 

[ninian324]

Hi, My motorhome has displayed that message for the past 6 years every time I start it for the first time on the day. I've been fighting with Fiat Customer Care to have the problem sorted but I haven't made any progress they just say they're looking into it. My Fiat Professional Garage (unprofessional) as I call them don't have a clue as to how to diagnose the fault. When I start the van the message appears and shortly afterwards disappears.

I'll just keep on at Fiat in the hope of getting it sorted.

 

[RalphM]

Don't think I would be going for a new engine without
having a look at things first, think the first thing would
be to check the oil then connect a oil gauge to the engine see if in fact
it as oil pressure or not, it seems strange they just
jumped to new engine unless of coarse they know something
we don't, I would think the oil pressure sensor would be more
likely to fail than the engine, thought why it started to over rev
is odd unless the turbo as failed but then you get lots of smoke.

 

[theGman]

There was no smoke at all, some slight over revving, but it all happened so quick. As soon as the warning came up my mind was only thinking about getting on to the hardshoulder as soon as possible and stop the engine. The motorhome has been recovered to my local dealer who will stick it on a diagnosis reader tomorrow. Not sure if the first garage I was recovered to just didn't want the work, they just kept saying about the time involved and how busy they were.

 

[RalphM]

Your local lot may shape better and give you a better idea of what happened

 

[ninian324]

Hi. I'd be very interested to know what your local dealer says. As I said my local Fiat Professional are useless.

 

[theGman]

How long does it take to replace an engine?

 

[theGman]

Where abouts is the oil pump located on a 2018 2.3 ducato engine?

 

[Communicator]

eLearn for the x244 2.3JTD, which is an earlier version of the Iveco engine under discussion, refers to removing the engine front cover complete with vacuum "unit", and oil pump. (The "front" of an engine is the non drive end.)

 

[Anthony489]

Hi theGman

Attached is an e-learn extract for the X250 engine used from 2006 onwards. Yours may well be similar. As Communicator describes, there is a cover plate on the non-drive end of the engine which has an integral vacuum unit and oil pump. I haven't included the lengthy list of preliminary dismantling to get to this point, but it can be done with the engine in situ.

 

[theGman]

Well a wee update on my problem. I had my van booked into FIAT Professional garage. Booked it in 31 August as I was going out of country, earliest they could take it was 13 September, so I got it stored then transported to Fiat on 13th as agreed. I called them on 15th to see what they found, only to be told it wasn't booked in and the earliest was now 1st October. What I want to know now is this. Before they start stripping my engine down can the get information from the OBD ECU listing what oil pressure was before the warning, what engine temperature was etc. Is the OBD ECU similar to a aircraft black box that stores all the parameters etc. Thanks.

 

[ninian324]

Hi, My local Fiat Professional garage are totally useless. I have the same problem and they couldn't diagnose the fault. I took it to an independent garage and they diagnosed the fault right away. My van has a 3 second delay in the Oil Pressure reaching the switch which results in the Message showing on the dash but they couldn't determine what was causing it without delving further into the engine. On-going. I told Fiat Customercare this but they refused to acknowledge the findings of the garage saying they only respect there own dealers.

The independent garage fitted a pressure gauge to the port of the pressure switch and timed the delay. Hope this helps.

Post an update with your garages findings. I'm interested to know.

 

[theGman]

Well today I heard back from my FIAT garage. This is what they said they found. "So far the vehicle has had the oil sump and main bearings removed and checked ok. Removed starter to eliminate the starter as may have been jammed, all ok. Removed injectors found No. 4 injector tip blown. Removed intercooler pipes to check for oil, opened technical case with Fiat, they asked for data parameters relating to number of revs, DPF parameters, odometer over revs, oil change data, service history"
What could cause a blown injector? Could this have anything to do with insufficient oil pressure?

 

[Anthony489]

Hi theGman

If I were faced with this problem, the first question I would ask is "Is the oil pressure actually low, or this a spurious warning e.g. from a faulty oil pressure sensor". To answer this, the most basic first check which any well equipped garage would do is to connect an independent oil pressure gauge, as ninian324 found.


Dismantling main bearings would only be justified if the above check had been done, and the result was genuinely low oil pressure when running. I don't understand the logic behind removing injectors, unless they were first tested in-situ for leakdown. A blown injector tip could be due to fuel contamination.


Maybe you aren't getting the whole story ?

 

[theGman]

Hi theGman

If I were faced with this problem, the first question I would ask is "Is the oil pressure actually low, or this a spurious warning e.g. from a faulty oil pressure sensor". To answer this, the most basic first check which any well equipped garage would do is to connect an independent oil pressure gauge, as ninian324 found.


Dismantling main bearings would only be justified if the above check had been done, and the result was genuinely low oil pressure when running. I don't understand the logic behind removing injectors, unless they were first tested in-situ for leakdown. A blown injector tip could be due to fuel contamination.


Maybe you aren't getting the whole story ?

What I've been told is the engine is completely seized. So ow they are looking into why it seized. It's only done 24k miles, oil level was fine when `i checked it after I stopped.

 

[Communicator]

I am having difficulty in relating the suggestion that the engine is completely siezed, to post #3 of this thread where the OP states that the engine was over revving until switched off.

 

[theGman]

I am having difficulty in relating the suggestion that the engine is completely siezed, to post #3 of this thread where the OP states that the engine was over revving until switched off.

When I got the "insufficient oil pressure" waring on my dash display I was going @60mph in outside lane overtaking a truck. My immediate action was to get to the hard shoulder as quickly and safely as possible. This all happened within about 10 seconds. I may have been wrong about over speed. But I can tell you there was no white smoke from my exhaust as I would have notice when doing a mirror check. After recovery to a FIAT Professional garage I was told by the technician there that the engine was seized. All I know is I did not try and start it again.

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

I have heard of engines where piston/bore damage has occurred due to lubrication failure and localised overheating. The metal-to-metal contact can result in enormous frictional drag, which a running engine might just about be able to overcome. After stopping and cooling down, this friction could be so high that the starter motor is incapable of turning over the engine.

The damaged injector tip could be either the cause or the effect of something going seriously wrong in one cylinder. Maybe they could put an endoscope style camera down the injector hole to check for piston damage or bore scoring ?