Technical inner cv joint marea 1.6

[lukish]

So today I tried to replace the outer CV joint (driver side) and failed.

Two things went wrong. The first is that while I struggled to free the outer CV joint from the vertical link hub, I saw quite a bit of oil leaking from the other end of the drive shaft, i.e. from the inner CV joint and gearbox.

I think I’ve detached the other end of the driveshaft from the inner CV joint. I think the CV boot is still attached to the gearbox (I haven’t had time to look properly, as I was getting late I was knackered and I just gave up for the day), so what I think happened is that the inner driveshaft end inside the boot must have come off the gearbox?

My question: how to put it back in?

I found this from the Marea Manual Vol. 1, section on Gearbox and Transmission, p. 28 (I’m attaching the 3 pages that are relevant in the link below):

“Refer to the dismantling of the drive shaft described for the 1370 12v engine, with the difference that on the 1581 engine, in the dust excluders on the gearbox side, fluid tight ball bearings have been installed on the drive shafts to minimize oil leaks. Use the general-purpose puller to remove these bearings.”

I also found the following (from Neverth, in another thread):

“1.6 [Marea] has the boots [of the inner CV joints] on gearbox as it has internal CV joint, also it has bearing on the CV-boot to keep the gearbox oil in and let the shaft spin (the boot doesnt spin).”

So from what I understand, I will need to undo the clip securing the inner boot to the gearbox, then pull back the boot, and once I do that I should be able to see how to slot the driveshaft back into the gearbox/inner CV joint.

Is this correct, or is there anything I’m missing?

Another thing I’m unclear about is what the instruction manual call the “tripod joint”: does anybody know if I need to do anything with it?

Any advice greatly appreciated!

 

[Neverth]

The assembly on picture 2 on first page is part of the gearbox, tripod joint is the one on picture 3.

If the shaft is still inside the boot, you just pulled it off the box and it is loose inside to boot, with luck the tripod bearings are good and have not disassembled themselves.
Tripod came out of the cup. I've had that happen when replacing shocks and lower wishbone, just lifted it a bit and rotated and it popped back in. Do not use force.

Best option if you have time/space/tools/experience:
Just take the boots off and replace them and the shaft bearings, it is really annoying when they start to leak and the engine side is pain to do.

 

[lukish]

Thank you Neverth! I've had just enough time today to get some photos of the inner shaft, which I'm attaching. As you can see the shaft is still inside the boot.

If I understood you right, the shaft has come out of the cup/casing for the tripod, casing which is located inside the gearbox. The easy and cheap solution is to wiggle until the tripod pops back into said casing, correct?

Also, if I want to go for the best solution of replacing boot and tripod, do I need to pull the whole shaft out?

And in order to pull it out, all I need to do is unclip the bigger clip on the inner boot, correct? Or is there anything else involved?

Finally, do tripod bearings fall apart easily when pulled out of their cup?

 

[Neverth]

The bearings should not come apart if they are good and contained, but there is this guy called Murphy.
If they are good, it goes easily in once aligned.

To replace the boot you need to disassemble either end, but to change the bearing on the shaft you need to take the inner end off.

It is not held in as it is supposed to move in an out with the suspension travel so taking the boot off means there is nothing to keep you from pulling it completely out.
As it is leaking oil when you pull the driveshaft outwards, my guess there are cracks in the rubber that open at the same time. Judging from the FIAT logos on them they are original, bearings might be good as they bathe in oil and do not carry load.

 

[lukish]

Thanks again Neverth. Tomorrow I'll try to pop the tripod back in its casing, and if I can't I will have to call a mechanic. So close and yet so far...

One thing that bothers me is that, if i remember correctly, the driveshaft wouldn't turn anymore shortly after I managed to extract the outer CV joint from the wheel hub.

It doesn't make much sense, but might that be connected to the fact that the driveshaft got detached from the other end?

 

[lukish]

Does anybody have any suggestion on how to unstuck the driveshaft at the inner CV joint end? I've separated it from the wheel hub, and now I cannot seem to turn it, probably because it got detached from the other end?

Tomorrow I should be able to have some time to check it again, so if you guys have any tip on what I should try then, please let me know.

If worse come to worse, I will try to detach it completely (again, any tips on how to do so is welcome!).

Thanks again everybody.

 

[franglais]

i changed my left hand drive shaft not long ago, i have a couple of (probably useless) photos on the St Moritz thread, link in signature, but it's a JTD and by the look of the ePER schema, it's comletely different, so i doubt my experience will be of much use, sorry.
good luck, gentle persistence is a vital quality, but occasionally a touch of force also does the trick.

 

[lukish]

Ok, a quick update. I managed to undo the big clip on the inner CV (tripod) joint boot. Once I did that, the driveshaft came out of the gearbox with a gentle pull. However to extract it completely I had to be careful as there isn't much space, and I unscrewed the three screws holding the heat shield of the catalytic converter in order to be able to push the heat shield itself and have more space to pull out the drive shaft.

Next I put the driveshaft on a work table and used some cheap vices to keep it still. I then took out the circlip that holds the tripod. The circlip came out very easily, after which it was just a question of pulling out by hand the tripod itself, with a bit of force, and with a pair of new plastic gloves so as not to contaminate it with any dirt which might get into it... I then wrapped it into some kitchen cling film as I will only reassemble it tomorrow.

The really difficult bit for me was pulling the outer CV joint out of the driveshaft. It's got that damn circlip which is a bitch to take out. As others have said in other threads, the trick is to gently open it as much as you can, at least 2/3 of the way to the maximum opening allowed by the gap they sit into, and then while you keep the circlip open with one hand, with the other you grab a hammer and you deal a single blow to the CV joint: with any luck it will move of a couple of mm out and take the circlip with it. So I managed to pull it out as well. Then it was 9pm and I was tired, so I left everything and tomorrow I will grease and reassemble on the driveshaft the new outer CV joint and boot, as well as replace the boot for the tripod joint, and regrease it (probably with normal CV joint grease rather than the special tripod joint grease, which I've ordered but will probably take a couple of weeks to arrive as it's being sent from Lithuania (it's the MC-SHRUS brand, which is Russian).

BUT I HAVE ONE FINAL PROBLEM I need help about: on the tripod joint end, the small side of the CV boot was held in place not only by the usual clip on the outside, but also by a thick metal ring on the inside, which turns (it may be a balljoint?). I'm attaching a photo.
Now, to remove the old boot I had to cut it because I was finding it very difficult to make it go over that metal ring, because the diameter of the latter looks bigger than the diameter of the small side of the CV boot. Maybe stretching would manage to push the CV boot over that metal ring, but I'm not sure.
So, does anybody know how to pull the inner CV boot over that metal ring please?
Many thanks again for the help you guys have provided so far. Without it, I'd given up a long time ago...

 

[Neverth]

That is the bearing holding the oil in, the boot should have a "pocket" that goes on the thickest part and holds it even without the metal ziptie.
It is rubber, just use silicone grease or something to force it on.

If you change it, just treat it as a normal bearing.

 

[lukish]

Thank you so much again, Neverth. Tomorrow I will try doing as you say - I will oil/grease the new boot and try to force it over that bearing.

Today I worked on disassembling the front exhaust pipe with the catalyst - almost there, but the 5 rods that joint the catalyst to the manifold are difficult to undo, as I don't know how to grip them... But if I might start a dedicated thread, as I took photos on how to do so (it's not as easy as I thought! Almost more difficult than the CV joints!).

 

[lukish]

Another update: it turned out that forcing the boot of the inner CV joint over the bearing/metal ziptie is very easy, as Neverth wrote, and a bit of pulling will do.

With regard to disassembling the front exhaust pipe with the catalyst, I found a way to get out the threaded studs which secure the catalyst to the manifold. It's a brilliant tool called roller type stud extractor. I've ordered it, and don't foresee any problem taken those threaded studs out when it arrives.

 

[mareaisaplane]

That is the bearing holding the oil in, the boot should have a "pocket" that goes on the thickest part and holds it even without the metal ziptie.
It is rubber, just use silicone grease or something to force it on.

If you change it, just treat it as a normal bearing.

I have a problem with the bearing because it is not sealing and oil is leaking. Is it easy to replace the bearing? It looks to me that it is pressed.

 

[Neverth]

I should be pressed as otherwise it would not seal. From the pictures above you can see there is machined surface it is on, and the axle towards the joint is machined smaller so you don't need to pound it all the way.
Get spare CV from scrapper and fix it if it needs any fixing. Change the boots anyway while in there.