Technical inlet manifold shot

[arti_abarth]

No. 4 swirl flap is leaking boost very badly now so i will attempt a diy manifold change.
I'm a bit pi**ed off as the car has only done 83k miles!
I'm not getting any errors (yet) but I can smell the fumes when stationary with engine on, there is a hissing sound in the engine bay and then lastly I can see a bit of smoke coming out from no 4 swirl flap when the engine is revved.
Initially I thought it was the blown exhaust flexi but now I can see smoke near the flaps.
I'll be fallowing THIS guide, has anyone done theirs manifold? Any additional advice? Is anyone near the hull/anlaby area willing to assist on Thursday or Friday?

I've already bought the manifold on ebay - 178 pounds delivered, it will come by Wednesday (I found one later for 159.99 delivered, but it was too late)

On the plus side though, it's not as bad as BMW swirl flap failures - I helped my mate the other week to blank off the swirls on his 320d - I thought he was bonkers at first but when we removed the manifold it was clear that he only narrowly avoided a disaster as one of the flaps was broken off and barely held by the gunk in the manifold - very common on those engines

 

[arti_abarth]

well, I changed the manifold yesterday
what a nightmare of a job - took 8 hours from start to finish
it was well worth it - totally transformed the car performance wise and no more smell of the fumes

I'll post some photos of the old manifold latter but it is well past it, swirl flaps have a lot of movement in all directions - all of them not only no 4 as I first suspected. They were leaking boost very badly.
Also because of poor combustion the whole manifold was full of gunk as erg was letting it in and my dpf was regenerating more and more often.

The new manifold has been modified. Swirl flaps are one piece of plastic - not metal like old ones and there are no screws in them, also tops are different so they will not wear out like the old ones

 

[Radlet6]

You know a good W123 or W124 Merc Estate from the early 90's looks more appealing every day.

Swirl valves - non existent; PDF filters - no not here; Engine Management - hardly; EGR valves - not one to be found anywhere.

Just good solid German oily bits that go on for ever. Loads of room in the engine bay and parts are quite cheap now as well.

 

[arti_abarth]

yes it has been coming to my mind quite often recently

 

[evo-number-one]

You know a good W123 or W124 Merc Estate from the early 90's looks more appealing every day....

From experience, I would say only consider a M104/OM606 W124 only where you have evidence that the bio-degradable engine loom has been sorted - and sorted properly.

Engine looms and ECUs for those cars are definitely NOT cheap......

 

[s130]

Firstly, well done on the inlet manifold change over. Rather you than me.

Now comes a question that I guess many of us would like to know the answer to.

What does the 1.9 16V diesel engine drive like with no swirl valves, i.e. with the drive motor linkage disconnected and the valves in the fully open position?

Is it a dead duck and very noticeably sluggish at low rpm? Is pickup a little better above 2K rpm?

IF the car is pretty OK to drive then this begs the question as to whether it could be prudent to knobble the swirl valves to the fully open and thus remove shaft and seal wear whilst the seals are still in good condition.

If failures are happening around the 80K to 100K mile mark then this is way too low for a diesel engine and with the car only worth £2K to £3K then the cost of replacing far out weighs the possible slighlty poorer performance from running with the valves/flaps full open all the time.

 

[s130]

Following up on my own question a little research seems to suggest the following.

1) Swirl valve flaps closed at high RPM reduce engine power by around 10%
2) Swirl valve flaps closed at high RPM increase soot production
3) Swirl valve flaps open at low RPM increase soot production

Increased soot production could be a DPF issue if you only ever do shortish journeys.

I'm thinking...........

1) disconnect the motor drive to flaps and manually open the valves and secure
2) Max power, max revs, foot to the floor driving style

Found these links which will be of interest to most.

http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f91/bmw-e46-diesel-info-including-*swirl-flaps*-t5537/

http://www.wmvx.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/66-1-9CDTi-Swirl-Flaps-What-Where-Why-and-How-Much

http://www.ms-motor-service.com/ximages/pg_si_0093a_en_web.pdf

If nothing else quite informative.

 

[halilson]

The flaps are open when the engine is off, on tick over the valves close and only open again above 2000 rpm. The actuator is vacuum operated by two pipes running over the top of the engine, on the right hand side. I simply bypassed the actuator at the front of the engine and blanked off the ends of the two pipes, thus leaving the flaps permanently open. It's a lot easier than fiddling about at the back of the engine with the actuator rod.

 

[s130]

Did you do the bypass on the 16V 150 engine?

If you bybass at the from of the engine doesn't the ECU throw a fault code?

The actuator my be vacumm driven but it does have inbuilt sensors allowing it to detect stuck or slow valve response. I would have thought that once the engine is BELOW 2000rpm the ECU is expecting the actuator to send a flap closed signal.

 

[s130]

The actuator is vacuum operated by two pipes running over the top of the engine, on the right hand side. I simply bypassed the actuator at the front of the engine and blanked off the ends of the two pipes, thus leaving the flaps permanently open. It's a lot easier than fiddling about at the back of the engine with the actuator rod.

According to all the information I can find the swirl valve actuator is all electrical drive and sense. No vacuum pipe connectons at all.

What is your engine?

 

[arti_abarth]

those two metal pipes that go over the engine have got nothing to do with swirl flap mechanism!
they are both connected to a black sealed box - i don't know what that is (some sort of vacuum buffer maybe), and they go back and operate the turbo actuator!

when i was replacing manifold i was cursing fiat for putting that box (pic below) in there because it should/could be mounted somewhere on the front of the engine - to explain it simpler - it goes from vacuum pump via one of those metal pipes all over the engine to the black box that is mounted on the inlet manifold and from the black box via second one of those metal pipes back over the whole engine to the turbo actuator valve

swirl flap mechanism is fully electric driven - no vacuum connections to it



BTW:
total cost to me was 185 pound only - 169 for manifold and 16 for two litres of coolant concentrate
the manifold came with all gaskets
i reused all bolts, nuts and clips (needed a special tool for those) and also reused the old actuator against pierburgs advice, but i see no issues

 

[s130]

Agree. Just looked at my Croma and then ePER.

That black box is offically a "vacuum tank". Not sure what it is supposed to do but I think it may be related to the general emissions control system.

Had a quick look on eLearn both about swirl valves and this vaccum tank and there is not that much information.

 

[Radlet6]

From experience, I would say only consider a M104/OM606 W124 only where you have evidence that the bio-degradable engine loom has been sorted - and sorted properly.

Engine looms and ECUs for those cars are definitely NOT cheap......

Why is it that someone always has to come and p*ss on my firework?

 

[evo-number-one]

Why is it that someone always has to come and p*ss on my firework?

You may jest, but as a W124 owner this could be your best course of action when confronted with a hot brittle loom......

 

[Hellcat]

I have a friend at work who is now £1800 lighter after being lucky with his swirl flaps. His 04 plate 530D only ingested 1 swirl flap which got into 3 cylinders and blew a hole in his inlet manifold. Three new pistons and some work to the head and it's back on the road. This time with the swirl flaps not only disabled... but fully replaced with blanks.

http://www.swirlflaps.co.uk/

Maybe they will branch out into the wider world of swirl flap anniahalation?

 

[halilson]

Well that's embarrassing! You're correct in saying that the vacuum pipes don't operate the flaps. The black box is in front of the rod that I thought was controlling the flaps, but it seems that this isn't the case. Can anyone tell me where the actuator is?

The funny thing is that the car runs much better with the vacuum pipes bypassed, but I need to know what they are for.

 

[arti_abarth]

like i explained in my earlier post they operate turbo actuator, by bypassing that box you got a direct vacuum from the pump straight to turbo actuator valve

 

[s130]

Can anyone tell me where the actuator is?.

It is behind and slightly offset from the black box (vacuum tank) your bypassed the hoses on.

Its exact VISIBLE position I can't confirm because it is so tight to the back of the engine block it is not possible, even with a mirror, to view it from the top of the inlet manifold. Definitely a view from below job and I suspect because it is so high up it is also possibly difficult to reach/access from below the car and having to get around streering rack, drive shafts, pipes and cable looms. Blink dumb place to put a component that is likely to fail.

I had a bloody good go at accessing mine form the top of the engine and gave up. Next time I do a service and oil change I'll look again but I'm not looking forward to it. High up, restricted access, etc.

All in all a frigging and :bang: and :devil:'s own job UNLESS somebody has another :idea: idea.

 

[halilson]

Thank you arti_abarth, I will put the pipes back the right way round asap! I have new silicone hoses so hopefully they will last longer than the originals.

Thanks S130 , I think that must be the rod that I saw previously. I will have another look but, as you said, there isn't much access there!