Technical Ignition Frustration

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Technical Ignition Frustration

JumpJet

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Now that I've got Martina back together after the stripped insert, I'm troubleshooting the no-start that got me here in the first place. She had been running great, but then all-of-a-sudden wouldn't start.

I think I'm zeroing in on the coil being the issue, but a little hesitant because it seems to measure normally. I've measured the resistance across the +/- terminals and get ~3.2 Ohms. Across the HT lead and terminal, I get ~8,000 Ohms, but cannot get it to deliver a spark with any troubleshooting method.

I've tried ignition-on, points closed, and holding the HT lead ~1/8" from a good ground, and tried separating the points - no spark. I've tried that with two separate sets of plug leads, as well as a zero resistance test wire. Nothing. Is that confirmation that the coil, despite reading correctly, is toast?

Voltage on the + ignition lead (blue wire) measures correctly and the ground wire has good continuity to the condenser lead (can't test the Swiftune itself). Unfortunately, I don't have a spare coil to test & check.

Any ideas? Am I missing something obvious here? If it is indeed the coil, this'll be the second one she's been through in not a terribly long time, leading me to wonder a bit. Thanks in advance.
 
While not helpful a lot of people on various forums including this one have said they feel the build quality of modern day coils and components are not what they used to be. Coils and condenser woes seem to be rife.

I've had a fear lately as my coil gets excessively hot, it looks to be a Bosch Blue Coil, I also carry a Lucas DLB 105 in the event it leaves me stranded but touch wood 1000 miles and a year of motoring and it's been fine.

Have you looked into an electronic ignition? That's what I have and to be fair to it, the little 500 jumps to life a lot quicker then my 850 that's on points.
 
Now that I've got Martina back together after the stripped insert, I'm troubleshooting the no-start that got me here in the first place. She had been running great, but then all-of-a-sudden wouldn't start.

I think I'm zeroing in on the coil being the issue, but a little hesitant because it seems to measure normally. I've measured the resistance across the +/- terminals and get ~3.2 Ohms. Across the HT lead and terminal, I get ~8,000 Ohms, but cannot get it to deliver a spark with any troubleshooting method.

I've tried ignition-on, points closed, and holding the HT lead ~1/8" from a good ground, and tried separating the points - no spark. I've tried that with two separate sets of plug leads, as well as a zero resistance test wire. Nothing. Is that confirmation that the coil, despite reading correctly, is toast?

Voltage on the + ignition lead (blue wire) measures correctly and the ground wire has good continuity to the condenser lead (can't test the Swiftune itself). Unfortunately, I don't have a spare coil to test & check.

Any ideas? Am I missing something obvious here? If it is indeed the coil, this'll be the second one she's been through in not a terribly long time, leading me to wonder a bit. Thanks in advance.

That's a pity Matt; I've got several spare, working coils which you could have if I wasn't several thousand miles away. On the few occasions when I've supected the coil to be faulty, it has always turned out to be something else. Do you definitely have agood connection between the engine block and ground?
 
Hi,
Disconnect the wire from the coil to the points . Open the points , use ohm meter between wire connected to points and ground , is the reading infinity(open circuit)
as it should be ?
If not open circuit the condenser could be faulty or insulation somewhere.
Close points is ohm reading very close to zero(closed circuit)?

By the way if not cranking on starter to open points while testing for spark the points have to be flicked open quickly to get a good result.
Best wishes
Jack
 
Are you sure your starter is in working order? Mine tricked me with a slow death. It was turning but not enough to get the car to fire up. Ended up rebuilding it and it started right away. Can you bump start the car?

Now that I've got Martina back together after the stripped insert, I'm troubleshooting the no-start that got me here in the first place. She had been running great, but then all-of-a-sudden wouldn't start.

I think I'm zeroing in on the coil being the issue, but a little hesitant because it seems to measure normally. I've measured the resistance across the +/- terminals and get ~3.2 Ohms. Across the HT lead and terminal, I get ~8,000 Ohms, but cannot get it to deliver a spark with any troubleshooting method.

I've tried ignition-on, points closed, and holding the HT lead ~1/8" from a good ground, and tried separating the points - no spark. I've tried that with two separate sets of plug leads, as well as a zero resistance test wire. Nothing. Is that confirmation that the coil, despite reading correctly, is toast?

Voltage on the + ignition lead (blue wire) measures correctly and the ground wire has good continuity to the condenser lead (can't test the Swiftune itself). Unfortunately, I don't have a spare coil to test & check.

Any ideas? Am I missing something obvious here? If it is indeed the coil, this'll be the second one she's been through in not a terribly long time, leading me to wonder a bit. Thanks in advance.
 
Oh ya, the starter is nice and strong. No reason to suspect it. I'm fairly certain it's the coil, as I can't get a spark no matter how I test it. All the other leads and checks are good, so I guess I just wait for a new coil to arrive to verify that assumption.
 
Have you tested the condenser (if you are on points ignition)? Condensers don't like continual high temperature, a problem with all the 110/126 engine variations due to where the condenser is situated. Add to that the poor quality of modern condesers, and the 110/126 engine is renowned for going through them. If the condenser IS faulty, may I suggest one of the 'Swiftune competition' condensers, which can be mounted up by the coils, away from heat
 
Tom, I tried it for a bit with my accuspark (hall effect) setup before swapping in a brand new distributor WITH a Swiftune condenser. Neither setup yielded any spark.
 
Hi Matt; if you have tried both those options, it does indeed sound like a coil, or lack of feed to your coil. Have you tried to elimanate lack of current to the coil by running a temporary lead from the battery to the coil?
At the risk of sounding very patronising, have you checked that you have the coil wired the right way found?----ignition feed to:- +/sw/15 and distributor to:-- -/cb/1. I will admit to having, in the heat of a rush, wired up a coil the wrong way round--and fried an 'Accuspark' in the process (hang my head in shame!).
 
Hi Matt; if you have tried both those options, it does indeed sound like a coil, or lack of feed to your coil. Have you tried to elimanate lack of current to the coil by running a temporary lead from the battery to the coil?
At the risk of sounding very patronising, have you checked that you have the coil wired the right way found?----ignition feed to:- +/sw/15 and distributor to:-- -/cb/1. I will admit to having, in the heat of a rush, wired up a coil the wrong way round--and fried an 'Accuspark' in the process (hang my head in shame!).

I will share your shame albeit not on the Fiat but on the Beetle……..
 
Hi Matt; if you have tried both those options, it does indeed sound like a coil, or lack of feed to your coil. Have you tried to elimanate lack of current to the coil by running a temporary lead from the battery to the coil?
At the risk of sounding very patronising, have you checked that you have the coil wired the right way found?----ignition feed to:- +/sw/15 and distributor to:-- -/cb/1. I will admit to having, in the heat of a rush, wired up a coil the wrong way round--and fried an 'Accuspark' in the process (hang my head in shame!).

Oh I've absolutely done that in the past, no patronization needed! In this instance though, not the case. I did check the leads to/from the coil. The blue +12v ignition wire is hot with 12v only with the ignition on and the black ground/earth runs to the swiftune condenser, grounded to the distributor body/points arm connection.

The new coil arrived this evening, so hopefully I'll be able to get it sorted tomorrow. Vediamo!
 
Solved at last. Seems the Pertronix crapped out. Not gradually mind you, just didn’t want to start one day. Now little Martina is up and running with points and a Swiftune condenser and I reckon she’ll stay that way. This car has turned me into a bit of a Luddite with the poor quality of some of the aftermarket “upgrades.”

So far, she’s killed a 123Ignition and a Pertronix (magnet). Points it is.

/if it ain’t broke…
 
Solved at last. Seems the Pertronix crapped out. Not gradually mind you, just didn’t want to start one day. Now little Martina is up and running with points and a Swiftune condenser and I reckon she’ll stay that way. This car has turned me into a bit of a Luddite with the poor quality of some of the aftermarket “upgrades.”

So far, she’s killed a 123Ignition and a Pertronix (magnet). Points it is.

/if it ain’t broke…

Great to hear you're up and running again. I suspect the 123 killed itself; they aren't designed with long-term use in mind and carry zero back-up service from the manufacturer.

I refitted points about a year ago and I've had much more even and reliable running than I had been experiencing for the couple of years previously with the 123. :)
 
I am convinced that it is the heat of the air "cooling" the engine that does the damage to the condensers and the electronic ignitions. I have also find that they just "crap out" (what a lovely description!). One of the advantages of the 'Swiftune' condenser is that due to the fact it has an earth lead, it can be mounted up by the coil, away from the heat.
Welcome to the club of "pattern part haters"---I hate them with pasion,but often it is the onlyway you can get parts.
 
Here’s the new arrangement. I moved the coil back to the right - I got tired of trying to work in the confines on the left side. Swiftune is on the coil bracket, so hopefully that helps.
 

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The attached picture shows the only indication of any issues with the Pertronix setup - the little residue along the inner wall of the distributor that is right where the seam of the electronic unit and it's baseplate is. Oddly though, there is none of that residue on the unit itself. It might be the potting from inside the sensor that all melted out to the point there was nothing to remain on the sensor itself. Who knows. Just thought it'd be an interesting data point. From my googling, there's no reliable way to test the unit itself though.

Not sure why the site keeps rotating attached pictures 90-deg.
 

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