General How much should I pay? 2013 4x4 Twin Air

[Mouse1903]

Hey guys, looking for some advice on what this Panda is worth following my viewing? It's up for £4700 with around 76k miles. Test drove it and no issues driving wise, no creaks or rattles and steers well. All general functions work fine. The car will get a new MOT, has 6 months warranty and a history check reveals nothing untoward. 3 of the 4 wheels are kerbed, and 1 tyre is worn but this will get done in the price.

Now before I make an offer (I didn't commit to anything today), there is some paintwork damage on the passenger side that would likely be £500 to £700 to repair (I will confirm with my local bodyshop tomorrow). This is as follows:

- Deep scratch running from headlamp to corner of wing (not machine polishable)
- Deep scratches on both door rubbing strips and paintwork above the strips on both doors (again not machine polishable)
- Dent / gouge in paint next to rear wing (would need physical repair and paint, but not a big area)
- Medium scratches on rear quarter below window (machine polish would remove most of it but still visible)

Finally, year 2 and 4 services are missing as there's no stamped log book. There are year 6 and 8 services (or 2019 / 2021) and the oil / filter was done, along with spark plugs in 2021, but nothing on aux belt or brake fluid - the garage will do these they said. Is the lack of history a big concern for the engine if I can't find it from Fiat themselves?

Based on all of the above I just wondered what would be a reasonable offer to make on the car, I like it and generally happy with it but don't want to take the **** either, but aware of the cost to get the passenger bodywork sorted.

Any feedback appreciated. I've left photos below of the marks and general condition.

 

[Mouse1903]

Final batch of photos

 

[jrkitching]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

This is a good example of just how crazy windscreen prices for these cars have gone. I know used car prices have been inflated by the pandemic, but @koalar, do these really make this sort of money on the forecourt just now?

Objectively it looks like a pile of junk; personally I wouldn't buy it at any price. High mileage TA's with patchy service history are a potential shedload of future bills just waiting to happen and there are few independent garages who know enough about these engines to be able to fix any problems.

For what it's worth, trade value for a 4x4TA Panda of that age and mileage in showroom condition with full service history is around £2600. That one, given the bodywork damage and patchy history, I doubt you'd find anyone in the trade who'd pay £2000 for it.

My advice would be to keep looking.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

@Mouse1903 @jrkitching These screen grabs (from Autotrader today) might give a hint of what dealers sell Panda 4x4's with a TA engine for in good nick, similar mileage and age. The price would be about right if it were in good shape and with full history. From the dings and dents its either been used off road a lot or driven by a not-to-careful owner. The TA needs a full history, and a history that shows its been attended to by someone who knows that engine - not everyone does. From the second set of photos, there's a fair bit of surface rust on the bonnet shut area (which suggests neglect), a lot of leaves in the vent below the windscreen (a well-known are of neglect on this forum), and that looks like its the original Fiat battery too, which will be on its way out. I think you can find better... (by the way, the diesel 4x4s sell for even more elevated prices: the lugging power of the turbo diesel is a better choice for off road use and there were many fewer registered. I was offered more for mine by the dealer at three years old than i'd paid for it originally!! -- one of the very last in the UK, with Euro6 95HP diesel )

 

[Marcus Daly]

4x4s have always held their value, now more than ever.

That one looks like its had a hard life. Gaps in the service history on a TA would deter me.

Plenty of good ‘uns around.

 

[JaffaOrange]

Looks like the original battery to me. Same as my 2012 4x4 TA battery which is the original one.

 

[Panda IIs]

Hey guys, looking for some advice on what this Panda is worth following my viewing? It's up for £4700 with around 76k miles. Test drove it and no issues driving wise, no creaks or rattles and steers well. All general functions work fine. The car will get a new MOT, has 6 months warranty and a history check reveals nothing untoward. 3 of the 4 wheels are kerbed, and 1 tyre is worn but this will get done in the price.

Now before I make an offer (I didn't commit to anything today), there is some paintwork damage on the passenger side that would likely be £500 to £700 to repair (I will confirm with my local bodyshop tomorrow). This is as follows:

- Deep scratch running from headlamp to corner of wing (not machine polishable)
- Deep scratches on both door rubbing strips and paintwork above the strips on both doors (again not machine polishable)
- Dent / gouge in paint next to rear wing (would need physical repair and paint, but not a big area)
- Medium scratches on rear quarter below window (machine polish would remove most of it but still visible)

Finally, year 2 and 4 services are missing as there's no stamped log book. There are year 6 and 8 services (or 2019 / 2021) and the oil / filter was done, along with spark plugs in 2021, but nothing on aux belt or brake fluid - the garage will do these they said. Is the lack of history a big concern for the engine if I can't find it from Fiat themselves?

Based on all of the above I just wondered what would be a reasonable offer to make on the car, I like it and generally happy with it but don't want to take the **** either, but aware of the cost to get the passenger bodywork sorted.

Any feedback appreciated. I've left photos below of the marks and general condition.

Assuming you have the registration number you can "stalk" it via the MOT History - do the invoices reflect the time the original MOT was due? New discs on the back for example..? Have to question why 4 new springs and as others have said maybe (along with all those curious scratches) its been off road a lot? If that the case I'd expect to see some suspension ball joints replaced (MOT history again) - mine (a 63 plate 4x4) has an advisory on what will be a second near side lower joint at 75k miles; it doesn't go off road!! But the roads are pretty badly pitted around mine.

I took a chance buying mine with zero history at 50k miles (priced accordingly) and it has had a new uniair unit (likely due to poor oil maintenance) and dual mass flywheel and clutch (which probably more reflects previous driving habits). The battery, as others have stated, looks original - stop/start tech batteries are not cheap (does the Stop/start still work even?).

Oh and what does the driver's seat bolster look like? Certain colour combinations seem prone to crazing and flaking of the vinyl there.

All that said its worth what you are prepared to pay (banal statement I know) I love mine and wouldn't have given it back even if I know what I know now.

 

[Project 192]

Hey guys, looking for some advice on what this Panda is worth following my viewing? It's up for £4700 with around 76k miles. Test drove it and no issues driving wise, no creaks or rattles and steers well. All general functions work fine. The car will get a new MOT, has 6 months warranty and a history check reveals nothing untoward. 3 of the 4 wheels are kerbed, and 1 tyre is worn but this will get done in the price.

Now before I make an offer (I didn't commit to anything today), there is some paintwork damage on the passenger side that would likely be £500 to £700 to repair (I will confirm with my local bodyshop tomorrow). This is as follows:

- Deep scratch running from headlamp to corner of wing (not machine polishable)
- Deep scratches on both door rubbing strips and paintwork above the strips on both doors (again not machine polishable)
- Dent / gouge in paint next to rear wing (would need physical repair and paint, but not a big area)
- Medium scratches on rear quarter below window (machine polish would remove most of it but still visible)

Finally, year 2 and 4 services are missing as there's no stamped log book. There are year 6 and 8 services (or 2019 / 2021) and the oil / filter was done, along with spark plugs in 2021, but nothing on aux belt or brake fluid - the garage will do these they said. Is the lack of history a big concern for the engine if I can't find it from Fiat themselves?

Based on all of the above I just wondered what would be a reasonable offer to make on the car, I like it and generally happy with it but don't want to take the **** either, but aware of the cost to get the passenger bodywork sorted.

Any feedback appreciated. I've left photos below of the marks and general condition.

Personally, I would walk away, it has far too many issues that require attention for that kind of money, unless of course you can factor that into the price you offer and are happy with the car, it is your choice after all.

There are a lot of Pandas around ok the 4x4 ones are a little rarer on the ground but if you're willing to travel you can get yourself a much better one for more or less the same price.

Just to put things into perspective, 2 years ago last september I paid £5,995 for a 2014 (5 years old) Panda 4x4 TA Antarctica, a limited edition model, it only had 32k and full dealer service history, if I remember correctly it had 6 stamps, the last being the July before we bought it, 12 months MOT, 4 almost new all season tyres, alloys were mint, no kerbing, it came with 6 months warranty and we paid extra for a further 12 months warranty on top. Overall the car was mint inside and out, a few odd paint chips on the front of the bonnet which the dealer had touched up for us but certainly nothing major like scratches or dints.

Gaps in service history on a TA would concern me, it's essential to keep on top of regular oil changes with these engines.

At the time we were looking to buy one we saw a few and the prices vary a lot, some were more expensive and had more mileage and were older! I'm glad we did look around because I was set to buy a green one, with more miles and it was older for £500 more!

 

[Funky Spike]

I spent most of July and August looking for the right 4x4.
From experience they very rarely come up for sale privately and when the do they go very quickly, most I saw went within a day or two! So keep an eye on ads, eBay, Gumtree, Fakebook all the usual suspects.
I noticed that the winter pack would add £500 to the price.

I saw some rough ones under £4k but walked away as they all either needed lots spending on them or had little or no service history.

Ended up with a one owner late 2012 TA 33k mile example with 10 Fiat service stamps, including an oil change after 2 months and 750 miles. It was one of those cars you could just tell had been properly looked after. Paid £5k for it, still bugs me a little that I paid that much for a 9 year old car but then I remembered what I sold my 25 and 20 year old Cinquecento and Seicento for

Patience pays off but there are no bargains around at the moment unless you get a desperate seller.

Good luck and remember if it don't feel right it ain't right.

Spike

 

[Mouse1903]

Thanks guys for all the feedback, in the end I walked away due to work needed, unknown history and deciding to up my budget.

There was a 65 plate cross with FSH and 85k, 1 owner for new on Auto Trader I fancied, but only this morning a 63 plate standard 4x4 popped up just 2 hours from me. FSH again, only 45k miles with major service last year and diff oil changed. Well looked after, just serviced by the dealer with new discs / pads all round. History check revealed nothing bad and only advisory ever on MOT was the discs that are now changed. Also has good tyres all round which suggests it's been looked after. No split rear seat, but green, parking sensors and winter pack....I've just put a deposit on it

 

[Mouse1903]

Dealer photos

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

...green, parking sensors and winter pack....I've just put a deposit on it

All the best 4x4s are green... suits the car
Winter pack a useful addition too (love my heated windscreen)

 

[Mouse1903]

Always wanted the heated screen, it's good Ford eventually lost the patent on it so other manufacturer's can use it

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Always wanted the heated screen, it's good Ford eventually lost the patent on it so other manufacturer's can use it

Look around under the bonnet and you can spot Ford parts in the Panda... remember the previous Ford KA was basically a Panda/500 underneath. This is my 4x4... slide5-jpg.201830 (from a post about the blocked scuttle drains https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/scuttle-drains-no-duckbills.475219/post-4491914

 

[Project 192]

Thanks guys for all the feedback, in the end I walked away due to work needed, unknown history and deciding to up my budget.

There was a 65 plate cross with FSH and 85k, 1 owner for new on Auto Trader I fancied, but only this morning a 63 plate standard 4x4 popped up just 2 hours from me. FSH again, only 45k miles with major service last year and diff oil changed. Well looked after, just serviced by the dealer with new discs / pads all round. History check revealed nothing bad and only advisory ever on MOT was the discs that are now changed. Also has good tyres all round which suggests it's been looked after. No split rear seat, but green, parking sensors and winter pack....I've just put a deposit on it

I think you made the right choice, I got parking sensors on mine but sadly no winter pack!! That is always a bonus to look out for in my opinion.

I was going to add previously, hold on there are always Panda 4x4's popping up for sale and odds are you'll get a lower mileage example that has been well looked after. Green was one I was looking at and they do suit that colour, have seen a few in the peak district on the narrow lanes that criss cross that area and they do look very much the part and at home in their natural environment!

I know how it feels to go see a car you really want and it has many faults and issues but you get blind to them and only listen to your heart, when you're brain is saying walk away, too much work, lots of cost involved, sometimes the cost of repairs are more than just paying out more for a better example.

The orange one you originally looked at was a bit over priced in my opinion for the condition it was in, obviously it had been down a rough track or 2, that's not a bad thing, that's what they're designed to do but you have to factor that into the price if it is a bit rough round the edges bodywork wise.

There are lots of Panda 4x4's that just get used for the odd shopping trip and commute to work etc and lead a fairly light duty life, these are the ones you want to take on, low miles, well serviced and lovingly cared for.

 

[Mouse1903]

Picking it up on Hogmany, can't wait!

 

[Mouse1903]

Well that lasted a whole 12 days after the issues I reported in this thread: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/gearbox-going.459081/page-2

Car refunded. Told they had actually fitted a new clutch, most likely onto a worn DMF. Not to mention finding out the sump plug missing and sealed with sealant! Couldn't trust it after that

 

[gar074]

Not to mention finding out the sump plug missing and sealed with sealant! Couldn't trust it after that

You're well out of that heap.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Currently £5500 for 37500 miles and good condition. Prices vary hugely. Look at CarGurus for pricing as they do a value comparrison thats good, Its a bad time to buy as prices are inflated at the moment. Take your time as there are good buys that appear every so often. £4600 looks not too bad for the one you have shown but it needs a fair bit of TLC. Most of the marks you have shown will respond to treatment and care. These cars are cheaply made cars and mark up quite easily on the plastics. Trim parts are expensive if you decide to replace scratched bits. Always start low maybe aim at a couple of hundred off to have the marks removed or ask them to do before sale. You can always come up.

I would have a bit to say about it having needed springs. My rule of thumb is NEVER fit one new component to an axle. Springs dampers ball joints suspension arms always in pairs as with brakes. Doing one side only may lead to lop sided behaviour which coould be unsafe now or more possible as time goes on and miles build up. Ask yourself why it needed one front and one rear spring. Has it run over a rock? Look at the tyre wear carefully.

Dont be afraid to find another there are loads for sale.

 

[Happyman]

Ey up, my mrs. has to sell her 64 plate 4X4 TA by September, company car rules. Should of been replaced at 6 years old but, got a reprieve because of low mileage. The thing is, what is a fair price to sell it for? It has low mileage 22k, FFSH, winter pack, sliding rear seats, spare wheel, up graded stereo, city brake, curtain air bags, and sat- nav. Paint work is white with no marks or dinks, interior orange and unmarked (non-smoker, no pets or kids) Near side wheels have minor curb rash only. She's a Dr., so one careful lady Dr. owner too. I kid you not. If you want to check out the car it's GK64CZE. We buy any car and Auto Trader value it unseen at £6500 and £6430. But these are crazy times for second hand prices. What do you think it's worth?