How many kids?

[Ulpian]

Course not. Wouldn't put myself through that hell.

My parents did eventually divorce you see, and it was very acrimonious; two separate judges, one of whom threw the case out so that it had to begin again. Took months. This was in the early sixties when divorce meant the high court in London - for my lot anyway. So I can testify that the occasional cool moment and the odd row are far preferable to divorce and the post divorce situation. And I'm afraid current statistics bear me out.

I work in an area where we deal with the problems faced by children form poisonous - and very immature - relationships.

What you see in the media doesn't even begin to cover the awful reality either. Children are a serious business - do not go there lightly...

 

[dave]

I work in an area where we deal with the problems faced by children form poisonous - and very immature - relationships.

you sound well messed up, so i don't hold out much hope for the kids you are working with if you are imposing your messed up views on them

 

[Ulpian]

My views are not messed up, and I don't impose them on anybody.

And you are offensive.

 

[dave]

And you are offensive.

not half as much as you are

 

[Stu DemonD]

So killing the spouse might be kinder to the child than divorce as well.

So you are saying that you don't have messed up views?

 

[angel]

What amazes me is the views of people that arent actually married, never been divorced and havent had kids.

Once you have been through these big stages in your lives, then come back and tell us that it's so easy and the best way to do things :bang:

 

[dave]

arent actually married, never been divorced! thats me but have 2 kids with the same mum and we still all live in the same house kids are now 18 and 21

 

[angel]

pah, living in sin eh tut tut

well you obviously have a good relationship, which is what matters, not whether you're married or not.

 

[Ulpian]

I have views on cars I don't own and on anything and everything else I care to have a view on too. Just like you lot.

And if someone else's feral kid messes my life up in some way, and I am contributing to that kid financially - and by my taxes I am - I most certainly do have a view!

Also, I spend a goodly proportion of my life with friends' kids, helping them with the trials and tribulations of childhood and adolescence - not to mention helping them write their damned essays. So my 'views' are as worthy as any and more than many.

And some of you need to develop a sense of humour too.

Obviously I have touched a lot of raw, and dare I say guilty, nerves.
Not my fault.

 

[chaos]

Course not. Wouldn't put myself through that hell.

My parents did eventually divorce you see, and it was very acrimonious; two separate judges, one of whom threw the case out so that it had to begin again. Took months. This was in the early sixties when divorce meant the high court in London - for my lot anyway. So I can testify that the occasional cool moment and the odd row are far preferable to divorce and the post divorce situation. And I'm afraid current statistics bear me out.

I work in an area where we deal with the problems faced by children form poisonous - and very immature - relationships.

What you see in the media doesn't even begin to cover the awful reality either. Children are a serious business - do not go there lightly...

So you think that your parents should have stayed together even though it made them unhappy?

 

[Ulpian]

I was talking about the time before they divorced you see.

Afterwards life - for me - was changed. My mother was less happy, and my father married another woman (not his mistress). He was ultimately less happy too! They would have been happier staying together.

From the child's point of view, and one of the parents at least, life was worse.

Children crave stability and regularity in the home. This gives them a solid base to spring from in their own development. I was lucky because my parents behaved very properly, in the old fashioned sense, all the time, and anyway I was away at school and somewhat isolated from the situation. I only discovered the true details when I went through my mother's correspondence after she died. Their communication was through solicitors anyway since latterly they had lived in separate countries. (Forget separate beds).

We have a serious problem in this country with failing kids. Mostly the white kids of the indiginous population too. In a generation or two the country might well be run by the descendents of recent immigrants, whose families tend to be very supportive by the way, and they may well be talking about the problem native population and what they should do about it. Wait and see.

Oh, and before any of you try interpreting this as racism; it isn't.

As you may have noticed, I intend to go abroad within the next two years and live in a country where I myself shall be the foreigner.

 

[cazz]

Obviously you had a bad experience with your parents divorce, my parents were divorced only a few years ago but they would have been much better off getting divorced 10 years ago but they stayed together, living seperate lives and sleeping in seperate beds "because of the kids" they argued about silly little things (I remember 1 huge row when I was about 7 regarding who was gonna go out and get the milk!)
They fought with each other and dragged each other down undermining each others sense of worth and self asteem.

Just because they are your parents doesn't mean they aren't human, they have the same emotions and feelings as you. I wouldn't stay in a loveless marriage so why should they.

 

[Ulpian]

Yes, our parents do affect us; nobody be surprised - please.

My original suggestions were intended to help parents, believe it or not. 'The State' has set in place, by inertia I believe, a benefits system which actually encourages the breakdown of the family - I mean the real family: two parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, etc., etc.

None of my recommendations would be retrospective - whoever gets it (benefits) 'now' would continue to.
I would offer a future Day One, from which the new regulations would kick in. This would give everyone time to change their behavior and adapt. After that - you're on your own...

There is a terrible childlike immaturity infecting our society. An over-emotionalised cry-baby culture of 'poor-me' has obliterated the original self reliance which once characterised the British people, and not that long ago either.

As a nation we cannot continue blaming others: spouses; governments; Social Services; police; doctors; local councils; you name it; for the situations we find ourselves in. We must begin once more to carry responsibility for our own lives.

There is an 'I have worked' (for ten minutes in a shop) approach to benefits which seems to see a few years (or weeks) work somehow justifying a lifetime of dependence on the taxpayer at large. No. As has been said (Jeez, was in Jug?!) we pay in in case something terrible happens to us and we need help. Having children cannot be accidental. Sorry, it can't. For anyone who disagrees I'll happily send a description of the basic mechanism of the process. I don't believe Immaculate Conception happened 2000 years ago, and I don't believe it now. If you are pregnant, you did the deed. The end. Now, it's your problem. Deal with it, with your family. Leave my taxes alone. They are not for you.

If people are not happy, well, too bad, deal with it. Perhaps listen to grandma and don't get in a an unhappy situation in the first place!

 

[cazz]

The only 100% way of not getting pregnant is not to have sex, but accidents happen and women get pregnant. Its called life. A total ban on sex to save your taxes won't catch on.

and what is this listen to grandma crap? my Nans are dead, and they both claimed taxes in the form of a pension were they scroungers? No? in that case think of child benefit as a child pension its for children to have what they need, its not a luxury these families are poor.

I do think however that there should be a cut off point for job seekers and other such benefits, the system shouldn't be abused. but it always will be. its life!

 

[Ulpian]

True.

I have accidents as well, except I don't ask the rest of society to pay for them. I have insurance. Or I have to do without and pay myself - oh - and also pay, by tax, for those who are feckless.

Oh, and not having sex is an option you know; if condoms and pills and things are difficult to deal with. That mega-family that was sited originally is the result of total indifference to responsibility, state indulgence, and a complete disinterest in their own children. I know lots of people who have planned their families exactly, from between zero to four children. No mistakes. Responsibility.

The gran thing was a figure of speech, not meant to be taken literally. I meant that grandparents, for those who have them, and not everyone does, (I know that), were once a great source or wisdom.

I don't want this thread to be person-specific you know. This is a national issue of huge importance which needs a serious debate.

 

[angel]

God I want this ideal world please, along with the crystal ball to show me that the perfect life I have now isnt goin to change again in the future.
:bang:

 

[dave]

My original suggestions were intended to help parents, believe it or not. 'The State' has set in place, by inertia I believe, a benefits system which actually encourages the breakdown of the family - I mean the real family: two parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, etc., etc.

and/or does it help people to escape abusive or loveless marriages/ relationships until they are settled into a new job

 

[Ulpian]

Not The State's job.

 

[angel]

How can life be so black and white?

Everyones situation is completely different, along with 'family' life. What happens if suddenly one day both of your parents are taken away from you in a tragic accident and both your sets of grandparents are dead, having had no other children hence no uncles and aunts?

So how does that work?

Perhaps there should be a system in place where you can get out of the 'government pot' the amount that you have paid in to it yourself - like a little savings account. Then you wouldnt have to pay for other peoples children to go through schooling or pay for anyone else to be ill!

Also, not all children from broken homes grow up to be scarred for life by their parents split, I know my daughter isnt as i've spoken to her about it every step of the way, she understands and is only 8.

So as i've said there are no black and white set rules for life, life happens and you have to make the most of what you've got and enjoy it, you dont get a second chance at it!

 

[sportingsmissus]

Children are a serious business - do not go there lightly...

Really, i thought they were just for christmas

Many people have seen their parents get divorced, it actually happens in a lot of families (really it does)

There is no way on this earth i would want to go through the pain of a divorce especially if their were children involved but sometimes you have to be a little selfish, i know people who have seen mum beaten by dad and she hasnt wanted to leave for the fear of leaving the kid but then when he nealry killed her she had no choice, she ended up with the kid but thats becide the point.

i do understand where the stay together for the kids approach comes from but sometimes its not worth the hassle, isnt it better to be happy and make sure this is showing to your child? they can see mum and dad who are both happy, much better imo.

some people do think alot more about getting married and what it means to them before they do it to avoid these kind of situations but for some people it is what they want for their own reasons!!!!

if you dont want to get married have sex or anything else you moaned about its your choice but i'm just glad i still have the right for freedom of choice to some extent.