Technical Help identificate mk1 ECU

[Mar4ix]

I have punto mk1 . it is it '96, and by log book suppose to be 1.1, 8v, but after i got that car , i found out, car had engine and ecu replaced.....
found out when i was changing timing belt, i couldnt fit new timing belt (i was thinking it is from 1.1), and when counted teeths, found out , that new one has 104 teeths (for 1.1), and old one has 108 .... and after quick search with google, found out that 104 teeth belt is for 1.1 engine, and 108 is for 1.2 engine.

I wouldnt worry about all that, apart she doesnt work right.
New plugs, plug leads, temp sensors, timing belt fitted correct, new , good quality coils, new good lambda (o2 sensor) and new headgasket (head skimmed) fitted.
she still not running right. over fuelling, causing bad emissions, failing tests. that it is only one thing she is failing, all rest car is perfect.

So she is overfueling, and seems to be not all cylinders firing evenly. engine shaking (engine bushes all ok).

I had new catalytic covertor (last year before re- do test), got it something around for 45 -60 quid, not original or oem though, but was ok for retest.

this year emission test look like :

oil temp - 97 Celsius.
Low idle (860 rpm) - CO 0.93 vol% HC 632 ppm (above 0.50 % fail)
High idle (2,960 rpm) - lambda 1.01, CO 0.58 vol %, HC99ppm (above 0.30% fail)

By now i am considering about ecu, as it is another weak points on Puntos.

As it was replaced from other punto, i want find out exactly from which model .

351P3179 182 99

IAW 16F .E3

IAW 16F.E3/6A37-27

Punto 1.2 SPI CM F.2 T.

46545152 61602.106.02 E 12V

I want find out from which punto it is - 60 (58 hp), punto 60 (60 hp) or punto 75 (73 hp).

Many thanks.

 

[fingers99]

The Mk1 ECU -- I will shout it out loud IS NOT A WEAK POINT. The Mk2 ECU, however............:bang:

If the car is misfiring, it will always, always, fail on emissions.

E3 is the correct ECU for 1.2 SPI punto. Worthwhile checking that the ECU has not been chipped (although the "good" chips will not cause emmissions failures -- at least in the UK).

From your description, you have a misfire.

 

[Mar4ix]

The Mk1 ECU -- I will shout it out loud IS NOT A WEAK POINT. The Mk2 ECU, however............:bang:

If the car is misfiring, it will always, always, fail on emissions.

E3 is the correct ECU for 1.2 SPI punto. Worthwhile checking that the ECU has not been chipped (although the "good" chips will not cause emmissions failures -- at least in the UK).

From your description, you have a misfire.

Ok, where i have to look, to solve that problem ? faulty air sensor, camshaft sensor, idle sensor, throttle position sensor or WHAT !!!

 

[Mar4ix]

ehh, rang guy, who doing diagnostics, he said, will do best to find out the problem. i could do diagnostics myself, but that punto have no socket, none in right corner beside fuse box, or nearby... as it is 55 s punto, '96 (they didnt had diagnostic socket... as i did read somewhere), with ;99 engine in it) . yea, i know how diagnostic socket looks like.

 

[Mar4ix]

would 1.1 ecu fit ? just in case if ecu is faulty.

 

[fingers99]

Yep, 1.1 will fit.

There is a diagnostic socket -- 3 pin, near the ECU. The SPI cars are not OBD2 compliant (bugger all from that period is), but there is free software that can interrogate the ECU. A search on the Cinq/Sei side should find links.

As to finding the problem, the Sei Technical Manual (in the downloads section) contains tests which can be done on the SPI ECUs with little more than a multimeter.

Find which cylinder is misfiring and you've pretty much found the problem, I'd think.

Buggered temperature sensor, air temp sensor. wiring faults in that section of the loom, sticking injector, earthing out injector and stuck open or even missing thermostat have all been implicated in overfuelling as have pre-cat exhaust leaks.

 

[reddy4bed]

As said these ecu's are fairly robust, though I have seen one give intermittent problems (loose internal joint).
The most difficult problems to trace are when you have missed something the first time round, so its time to recheck the obvious.
Check the output voltage from the MAP sensor it should be 1.5v at tickover and that is quite critical, should not be under that. Also check 1.2v at 3000 rpm.
Incorrect MAP reading is caused by faulty MAP or poor vacuum, (usually cam timing wrong).
If you set the cambelt by using the marks on front pulley, then you have almost certainly got it wrong. Use the marks on the flywheel.
Misfiring from ignition should not affect the MAP reading, so that might help you to localise the problem to ignition or pumping.
Tony.

 

[Mar4ix]

As said these ecu's are fairly robust, though I have seen one give intermittent problems (loose internal joint).
The most difficult problems to trace are when you have missed something the first time round, so its time to recheck the obvious.
Check the output voltage from the MAP sensor it should be 1.5v at tickover and that is quite critical, should not be under that. Also check 1.2v at 3000 rpm.
Incorrect MAP reading is caused by faulty MAP or poor vacuum, (usually cam timing wrong).
If you set the cambelt by using the marks on front pulley, then you have almost certainly got it wrong. Use the marks on the flywheel.
Misfiring from ignition should not affect the MAP reading, so that might help you to localise the problem to ignition or pumping.
Tony.

Thanks Tony.

brought car to local garage, as i gave up to find problems.

Engine specialist said all mechanical part is perfect. clear noticeable misfiring on middle rev range 1000 - 2000 rpms.

Any one know, does engine need to react somehow when air and idling sensor disconnected while engine running ? there is noticable engine response, when disconnect throttle position sensor. Engine doesn't react at all when air and idling sensor disconnected. could be fault in these two sensors ?

thanks

 

[fingers99]

Which air sensor?

If you're talking of the sensors on the TB, wiring fault or filth are possibilities.

MAP is the usual suspect, though. And check that the hoses are correctly connected to the TB.

 

[reddy4bed]

The idle control is out of circuit during 1500 - 2000 rpm, so that should be out of the picture, likewise lambda, you can assume throttle position sensor is ok, but its simple to check out. The fuel supply is dependant on the mapping, MAP, temp, throttle, so could well be the MAP, or even the ecu.
Best of luck.
Tony.