Technical Handbrake Kerfuffle?

[arseofbox]

'Lo Peeps.

Ive moved on from my sump to the other vital area of the car for the MOT...the handbrake.

The cable snapped near the Drivers Side drum a few moonths back (no matter cos it was going off the road anyhoo), so I replaced it. Without anything else being altered...its now on its limit of adjustment immediately after replacement.

Ive stripped the rear brakes today to do the linkages and shoes to eliminate these - I though the linkages would be the problem...Nope! Theyre a bit stiff, but nothing a little abuse wont solve! (Theyre being replaced now anyway!). Equally, the shoes taken out appear to be about as worn as the new shoes I have waiting to go in, except in much worse shape generally (covered in crap).

So..Im thinking about why my handbrakes still knackered. either:

a. The drums are shagged, hence not enough contact with the shoes.
or b. The new cable stretched immediately, once it went in.

If its b., something somewhere down the line that isnt the linkages or shoes is causing this... anyone else got any bright ideas?

 

[dave]

have you checked the sticky ?
https://www.fiatforum.com/showthread.php?t=1819

 

[rallycinq]

Sounds like time for drums. Boom boom.

Cheers

D

 

[arseofbox]

Yeah Dave I did, just didnt really answer my Q...

Cheers t'other D! Im glad Im backed up on this!!

 

[rallycinq]

Since the banning of asbestos in brake friction material, shoes and pads have lots of metal bits in them. Dics and drums wear far more than they used too, but them I am old.

Cheers

D

 

[arseofbox]

Right, Ive refitted the shoes on one side...

Ive blown a rear brake cylinder!!, Trying to push the piston back in, it blew out the opposite side...firing it a good 2m!! (Didnt realise it was spung!!!)

Ive reassembled it, so now im just hoping its safe to use, no doubt the hydraulics need bleeding (the rear cylinder's full of air!!) and refilling!!

Any idea where the bleed nipple is, and how to operate it?

 

[Liam]

Behind the back plate IIRC Tom, there is every chance it will snap off when you go to undo it though.

Liam

 

[arseofbox]

Ah ha! Cheers Liam. Undone easily!

The Cylinder's fooked though (found a puddle of fluid around the floor)

Erm, another thing, I presume the order of springs on the shoes is Strongest tension one on the top and the weakest on the bottom? I can get the bottom one on fine, but I just cant get the top one on...any ideas?

 

[HP]

oops, strongest at the bottom. I use mole grips to hold them and something to lever against the hub.

 

[arseofbox]

Ah reet...but with them in that config, the shoes dont appear to be resetting themselves to the correct point- which I would presume is the point that the handbrake linkage is in contact with both shoes.
Should it reset to that point, or further apart?

 

[Liam]

The friction adjusters are rubbish I'm afraid.

Liam

 

[GeX]

Hmm i am in the process of doing a similar job on mine. The drivers side was dragging so took it to pieces. to try and free it and dissconnect the hand brake linkage. In a foolish attempt to unsieze the linkage i lightly pressed the foot brake, causing fluid to leak onto the floor. Luckily it looks like everything has gone back to how its should. Will need to bleed it of course. New cable, linkages and shoes arrive at FIAT tomorrow so should be able to start the repair work.
After the brakes work i have to find a way to un-weld my old lambda sensor from my downpipe and somehow fit a new sensor. All this and get to See-Red this weekend.
So watch this space for a possible ticket.

 

[Liam]

You can put a cable tie round the wheel cylinders to save any accidents.

I'm planning a handbrake fix next weekend.

Liam

 

[HP]

Ah reet...but with them in that config, the shoes dont appear to be resetting themselves to the correct point- which I would presume is the point that the handbrake linkage is in contact with both shoes.
Should it reset to that point, or further apart?

Tap the shoes as far inover as you can, they will self - adjust when you seat the shoes by pushing the brake pedal after it's reassembled.

 

[arseofbox]

Ah cheers Pete...Its looking as though it was gonna do that

 

[arseofbox]

Damn...this is not good.


Springs are on, shoes are in and hydraulic system is refilled and bled

But the fookers still arent playing!!
They dont appear to be seated right at all...even at a neutral position, theyre not close enough together to get the drums on...and even then, When yu operate the brake pedal, they go out but dont come back in

Might this be the shoes being a bad quality pattern? Theyre about the same in terms of wear as the ones I took off., but theyve got loads of freeplay (side to side) in the anchors, so Im thinking thats the prob.

 

[Liam]

The friction adjusters are rubbish I'm afraid.

Liam

Liam

 

[arseofbox]

Are they what controls the resistance to bringing the shoes back to the centre?

Personally, I was thinking it was a spring issue!

 

[Liam]

I use to do lots of vauxhall rear drum brakes when I did mechanics at college so looking at that system it kind of worked like this

Press brake, wheel cylinder pushes shoes out, adjuster between spring adjusts accordingly, release pedal, wheel cylinder goes back and resistance in the adjusters pulls the shoes back in away from the drum.

Cinq's just adjust then stay there!

Liam

 

[arseofbox]

Ah...is that from experience?

Another problem im having is that its going out unevenly - front shoe is reaching its maximum and sticking, but the wheel cylinder is going back in at an angle, getting caught and releasing hydraulic fluid all over the place!

Im guessing it shouldnt really do that?
Another one is on the working side- the shoes are as close as I can get them, but theres not enough space to get the drums on! Am I to open the bleed valve, close the cylinder enough to force the shoes closer together, then put the drum on and refil?