Styling Guide: How to make custom rear speaker panels...

[ronnieronson]

Ok - will submit this to the guides section when It is complete.

I've done this a few times now, once on my cinq, and also on mates cars in the past.
For the benefit of people who didn't see the ones that were in the cinq:

...by the way these are now for sale- see here:
https://www.fiatforum.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=7458&cat=55



So, anyway - here's the story of my speaker panels for my new Sei.

First job on the list was to go shopping for some basic supplys:

*MDF - 6mm thick. For a Seicento you will need to cut this to be approx 18.5" by 8", but this will also need tayloring to fit the shape of the door card....we shall come back to this later.
The MDF I purchased from B&Q cost me £4 for a massive sheet, which they cut for free for me
*Foam - for padding out your new panels, should not be much more than 1" thick, as that will cause problems later on in the process.
*A suitable material to appholster the new panels with - I chose a tough durable weave fabric, similar to that used to cover the seats in your car!
Cost price was £6 from Dunelm mill.

You will also need tools for all this - my weapons of choice were as follows:

*Screwdrivers - Flat blade - two, one smaller than the other.
*Screwdriver - Phillips Head.
*Swiss army knife.
*Spray adheasive.
*Glue gun.
*Fabric scissors.
*Craft knife with a sharp blade.
*Pliars.
*One small-ish screw.
*Powerdrill - you need drillbits - I can't remember what sizes, but I shall update this bit when I've gotten that far in the process.
*Circle saw drill adapter - again, can't remember the size but I shall update once I get that far on.
*Jigsaw - and a good solid workbench (or in my case I shall probably be using an old door and some concrete slabs ).
*Fibreglass - kits are easier to use, halfords do the fastglass kits for £8 which contain everything you need - but you will probably need two of them.

Erm, think I've covered all the tools - but if I end up using anything else in the process I shall jott it down.

Ok, so today I tackled the first, and probably worst task - removing the old panels.
Sounds easy huh? - sure, if you own a Cinq it's a piece of cake!
Unfortunatly if you own a Sei then it's a B*****D of a job!

Some tips before you start the removal process:

*Buy a bottle of Coke - you will repeatedly get thirsty.
*Open windows in the car - it will get warm quickly.
*Stick the stereo on - it will make all the hard work easier.
*Stock up on Cigarettes - even if you don't smoke... trust me - it really is that much of a pain in the arse.
*Prepare for bleeding hands and other associated injurys - they will occur, and more frequently as time wears on with the task.

So, now that we're all prepped and ready for removal, where to start?

Well as you can see from looking at the back of the removed panel, they are held on by these little buggers:

Which are held on to the panel with these:

Of which only a few will actually come out properly when you remove the panel (unless you have a cinq, and in which case this bit is all a piece of cake).

This is where the fun starts - working from the wheel arch pull the panel away from the bodywork, don't afraid to be rough!

Once you have the panel off, some of the little red securing pin thingys will still be attatched to the bodywork - these need to come off as we will be replacing them later on.
Unfortunately this is where the screwdrivers, knife, screw, pliars, brute force, and various injuries come into play.

You will probably spend about an hour or so working these things loose - but the best way seems to be to try and grab the thing using the pliars, squeeze really tight, and attempt to remove the pluggy thing in one fell swoop. It won't actually work out like that of course, but it's easier if you can pull it off that way.

If (and it's likely to happen), you end up accidentally pulling one of the heads off the red plugs like I did:

Then don't worry - that's exactly what you got the screw for

I'm sure it's fairly self explanatory as to what to do there - but just incase:
*Screw the screw into the remaining bit of the plug.
*Grab with pliars.
*Pull.

Ok - that's pretty much as far as I'm up to for now.
Tomorrow's task will be to order some new securing plugs for the panel (probably from either jordans fiat [their parts desk], or practical motorist [my local car stuff shop]).
Also on the list for tomorrow will probably be to cut the mdf to shape, and drill out the holes for the speakers in prep for the fibreglassing.

Ok, well - my hands are all cut to hell now, so it's time to stop typing and start drinking.

:slayer:

 

[randomizered]

Good guide so far

Are yo going to upload to the guide section? If you do can I ask you use the forum hosting for the pics. It's really annoying when you look at older posts and they are missing....using the forum hosting, things never get lost.

I know what you mean about the plugs and bungs....seems like they are designed as a fit and forget! Pretty much ALL my clips broke on the trim leaving the red plugs in the hole. Pliers, araldite, and a lot of cursing finally got it all refitted

Kristian

 

[ronnieronson]

Good guide so far

Are yo going to upload to the guide section? If you do can I ask you use the forum hosting for the pics. It's really annoying when you look at older posts and they are missing....using the forum hosting, things never get lost.

I know what you mean about the plugs and bungs....seems like they are designed as a fit and forget! Pretty much ALL my clips broke on the trim leaving the red plugs in the hole. Pliers, araldite, and a lot of cursing finally got it all refitted

Kristian

Thanks for the comments Kristian

yeah - I shall upload the pics to the forum when the guide is completed

I think the only thing that got me through it was chain smoking, constant use of the word C*** and lots of elbow grease

 

[OxO]

do you have the part no for the securing plugs? also do you know how much they sell for?

 

[custard]

Good guide so far

Are yo going to upload to the guide section? If you do can I ask you use the forum hosting for the pics. It's really annoying when you look at older posts and they are missing....using the forum hosting, things never get lost.

I know what you mean about the plugs and bungs....seems like they are designed as a fit and forget! Pretty much ALL my clips broke on the trim leaving the red plugs in the hole. Pliers, araldite, and a lot of cursing finally got it all refitted

Kristian

all images for the guides are uploaded as attachments

nicely done ronnie

 

[st-hamuel]

sounds good so far I might give this a go soon...if your guide continues as it started even I'll be able to follow lol

 

[ronnieronson]

do you have the part no for the securing plugs? also do you know how much they sell for?

Erm.... nope, and nope... to be honest I could reuse my existing ones, but providing they're not to expensive I would prefer to buy fresh - cant imagine them being too expensive...
(fingers crossed)

all images for the guides are uploaded as attachments

nicely done ronnie

Excellent news - and cheers custard feedback is always appreciated

sounds good so far I might give this a go soon...if your guide continues as it started even I'll be able to follow lol

Well soooooo many people PM'ed me after I did the ones on the Cinq asking how I'd done it, that I figured I should do a guide this time.
None of it is particularly hard - and if you're worried about messing it up you can usually rest easy in the knowledge that spare plastic panels are available in every fiat scrappers for less than £20.

It's pretty difficult to mess up though if you take your time and be patient (and smoke lots).



Now then - little update.
This evening I did nothing more than go and buy a new jigsaw, as my old one broke two months ago when doing some DIY on the house.
After that purchase I promptly came home to a BBQ and beer - as such I have got no further this evening, but I now face 3 days in a row off work - so progress should be good so long as the weather holds out

 

[Liam]

Not cheap but stuff like this is great for trim repair etc

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FRANKLIN-5pc-...ryZ30928QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or wrap a rag or electrical tap to avoid marking plastics and chipping paint.

Liam

 

[ronnieronson]

Not cheap but stuff like this is great for trim repair etc

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FRANKLIN-5pc-...ryZ30928QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or wrap a rag or electrical tap to avoid marking plastics and chipping paint.

Liam

Good find Liam




...Well I got back to work on the project today, so here comes part 2:

So today we're gonna start the process of turning these badboys into speaker laden, swish looking, foam padded pimped out, panels... or something like that.

Job number one - to make some mdf panels to hold the speakers.

Now hopefully the nice man at b&q cut your MDF to 18.5" by 8" - if not then that's your first task (this measurement is significantly different for the cinq).
Once we have the wood to that size we have to make it more like the shape of the contours on the plastic trim panel - there's no right or wrong way to do this - I pretty much guessed by eye, and then drew on the lines in black marker. Once cut I used the first one as a template for the 2nd.

But before we get carried away with cutting up wood, let's remember the speakers... they have to be positioned in the same place on both panels remember!
so once you have drawn on your "cut here" lines - flip the wood over and draw a cross diagonally from corner to corner.
In the center where the lines bisect you should have something that looks like this:

We want to forget about the speakers for now, and so we turn to our trusty friend:

...and cut the panel along the lines we drew on the first side, taking our complete piece of mdf to looking like this:

Now we've cut the wood to shape, we can think a bit more about the speakers.
The cross that we drew marks the exact center of the wood (hopefully), so using a 6mm drill bit we make our first hole:

Using one of these:

Next up comes the big hole - the speaker will sink into this.
For 10cm componant speakers (same size as in the front of a cinq - and presumably a Sei too), the required holesaw size is 95mm.

Line up the center bore drill of the holesaw with the 6mm hole you just made:

Start cutting.......... when you're done you should have something like this:

Today's speaker of choice is 100watt Kenwoods:

Which we place into the hole we just made:

And mark positions for the holes we need to drill:

Once you have two (diagonally opposite) holes drilled (using a 3mm drill bit), screw the speaker down so you can mark off the other two holes (which in my case I drilled while the speakers were installed).

Ok, so now were gonna go back to that jigsaw again to make one of these:

Which will cover up the old ashtray:

You can leave the ashtray in if you intend to use it - but it's a lot more work, and just complicated matters, so I would suggest removal.


We are now at the stage where we need to commit - so far all you've done is remove some plastic trim and make some panels - after this there is no going back (mwahhahahahahaaaaa!).

Your next task is to cut out the old armrests - why you ask is this necessary?
I shall explain.

With speakers being installed in this space, we don't want a sealed drum like area behind it, as this will create lots of bassey reverb when you crank your music up - and believe me this is not a good thing.
I realise that in essence once the speakers are installed that they will still be in a kind of drum like space (the shell of the car itself), but this is less of a problem as far as reverb and rattle is concerned, and as such the better of two evils.

So on to the cutting - Before you do anything to the plastic panels make sure to have removed any of these that may still be held in:

My weapon of choice again was the jigsaw:

And the end result being something like this:

When you offer up your wooden panels they should look a little like this:

Note that the one with the ash tray on will have some overhang onto the area which that was previously installed:

Which is not a problem - as you simply cut the corner off the small rectangle you made earlier and offer it up thus:

While the mdf pieces are laid out in place, take your marker pen and draw around where they are going to be placed - this makes the fibregalssing more easy and accurate.

.....And now it's time for a break and more supplies:

Now by this point my chief photographer had gone to work, so I didn't get much of the fibreglassing process - but the fastglass starter kits do come with instructions.
However some basic pointers for anyone who has never used the stuff.

*It is the work of the devil - a dangerous substance that should be used only in WELL ventilated areas.
*If you value your life, and do not want to be strung up by Landlords/Housemates/Parents/Partners - make damn sure you put a plastic sheet or big piece of wood down on the floor before you start.
*Wear gloves at ALL times when handling the stuff - even if you are just cutting it into strips!
*Take a shower when you have finished - this stuff gets everywhere and really irritates the skin!
*Resin Hardner is an oxidising substance - meaning two things
1>It reacts with oxygen, the result of which is an intense heat - when mixed with the resin causes it to harden like plastic.
2>It reacts more strongly and quickly in warm temperatures.

With that in mind - today was perhaps not the best day to have been doing this job.... ah well

Once the fibreglass had hardened (which on a day like today only took a couple of hours), I took my powersander to it and smoothed off just the strandy sticky outy bits that were left over.
It has to be said that a dust mask, long sleeved top, goggles, and a hat are recommended attire when sanding fibreglass - without these items, areas of skin that the dust comes into contact with could be irritated (it's quite uncomfortable!).

Well - that's all for today - hopefully I shall get back on to part 3 tomorrow.

 

[paulbfd]

constant use of the word C***

:worship:

I find that plus the F word help me tremendously when installing.

 

[Liam]

Well - that's all for today - hopefully I shall get back on to part 3 tomorrow.

You have just soared in my estimation! as the young generation would say Budweiser FTW!

Liam

 

[ronnieronson]

hehe

 

[Brooky]

:worship:

I find that plus the F word help me tremendously when installing.

Yea i like the bo***ck word,always helps

 

[custard]

You have just soared in my estimation! as the young generation would say Budweiser FTW!

Liam

others would say girls car,girls beer :devil:

 

[st-hamuel]

really good guide keep it up! the pictures are really helpfull aswel

 

[ronnieronson]

Part Three - The Re-trim, Stage 1:

Now we're going to cut the foam to shape - the easiest way being to use your new panel as a template:

When you've done this bit we need to mark out the speaker hole - use the hole in the panel to draw the circle and the holes for mounting the speaker as guides in order to draw a cross so that we know roughly where the center is.

Back to the hole saw - but instead of drilling normally, switch the drill into reverse mode and apply minimal pressure, this will prevent the foam from twisting too much.

The hole you are left with will not be perfect - don't worry, noone is going to see it

The next job is to mount the foam to the panel:

Working from the top-most edge spray thick layers of glue and flatten the foam onto it in a smooth motion:

Leave the panels overnight - preferably with something like books or as I did the cases containing the drill and jigsaw, layed ontop of the foam to help it stay put.

*Sleep*




Now we are just over half way through the process - the next bit can be tricky if you have never re-appholstered anything before.

Start by cutting your material of choice to at least 3" longer on each edge than necessary:

You will notice that in that last picture there that I have left waaaay more than the necessary 3 inches... you can always cut away excess, but you can't stick material back on if you need it... I play it safe!

Next step is to place the panel down on the material and use the speaker hole to draw a circle which we are going to cut out:

Once you have removed said circle of material using your scissors, we need to re-attatch the speakers.
For this you may find a bradawl, or nail useful - and it may be necessary to heat it in order to poke a decent size hole through the foam and material.

You will probably be thinking "that material is wrinkly around the speaker area" - the wrinkles and kinks will dissappear when we stretch the material and secure it to the back of the panel:

And as for the final stage of the refit - "Stretching the material", I'm gonna leave it here for now.

I will probably pick this back up on Sunday on my day off.

Hope everyone is still following the guide and finding it useful

 

[MiG]

really good guide except i can't help wondering if the fiberglassing is nessecary.
I am following it though, as I intent to make my own custom panel's at some stage..

 

[chaos]

really good guide except i can't help wondering if the fiberglassing is nessecary.

If you do it this way, then yes you have to fibreglass it - otherwise there's nothing else holding the baffle on

 

[ronnieronson]

If you do it this way, then yes you have to fibreglass it - otherwise there's nothing else holding the baffle on

Chaos is quite right.

The reason for fibreglassing is less about it's aheasive properties and more about distributing the weight of the speaker evenly.
I've tried it other ways, including superglue, glue gun, using other materials than mdf, making fibreglass custom moulds using chicken wire... you name it I've tried it.

this way has never let me down - though consistantly it always seems to look like its gonna be crap or not work right up until the last stage (which hopefully will get done tomorrow), and then it all seems to come together very nicely...

Feel free to experiment with other ways and materials - I'm not saying this is the only way - but it sure as hell is one of the easiest.
As Chaos will tell you - I'm always looking for the easy way out when doing a mod / job on the car - but the easiest isn't always the best / safest / quickest, in the long run.


Just on a side note MIG - you will find this entire process, from removal to refit, much easier - the panels in the Sei are an absolute bugger to work with, but in the cinq the top part is pretty level right the way across - I have a funny feeling at this stage that my speakers will be on a slight wonk - but luckily both in the same direction (I was lazy and drilled all my holes on both mdf panels at the same time).

...or if you're feeling lazy you could just buy my old cinq ones
https://www.fiatforum.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=7458&cat=55

 

[MiG]

Chaos is quite right.

The reason for fibreglassing is less about it's aheasive properties and more about distributing the weight of the speaker evenly.
I've tried it other ways, including superglue, glue gun, using other materials than mdf, making fibreglass custom moulds using chicken wire... you name it I've tried it.

this way has never let me down - though consistantly it always seems to look like its gonna be crap or not work right up until the last stage (which hopefully will get done tomorrow, and then it all seems to come together very nicely...

Feel free to experiment with other ways and materials - I'm not saying this is the only way - but it sure as hell is one of the easiest.
As Chaos will tell you - I'm always looking for the easy way out when doing a mod / job on the car - but the easiest isn't always the best / safest / quickest, in the long run.


Just on a side note MIG - you will find this entire process, from removal to refit, much easier - the panels in the Sei are an absolute bugger to work with, but in the cinq the top part is pretty level right the way across - I have a funny feeling at this stage that my speakers will be on a slight wonk - but luckily both in the same direction (I was lazy and drilled all my holes on both mdf panels at the same time).

...or if you're feeling lazy you could just buy my old cinq ones

O ok then, looks like fiberglassing it is then.

I woulda bought your old Cinq panels if they took bigger speakers, as if you remember I pm'd you about buying them but they were too small