Technical great little multijet

[seanoo]

my multijet has just turned 148,000 miles and still runs great. it has had 2 clutches but thats about it for big items . i did a brim to brim mpg test last week and it gave 69.6 to the gallon , great for a highish mileage small engine. it doesnt seem to be noisy on the cam chain front but should i change it anyhow? cheers sean

 

[SB1500]

my multijet has just turned 148,000 miles and still runs great. it has had 2 clutches but thats about it for big items . i did a brim to brim mpg test last week and it gave 69.6 to the gallon , great for a highish mileage small engine. it doesnt seem to be noisy on the cam chain front but should i change it anyhow? cheers sean

I've heard that although unlikely, it's possible for them to break - rendering your brilliant engine destroyed. So if I were you, I'd get it done as a matter of preventative maintenance - e.g. to KEEP it in great shape.

I'd say it could get to 250k with such care and servicing

 

[irc]

They were apparently designed with no recommendation to change the chain for the expected service life of the engine.
With correct oil changes & correct grade of oil used in normal use they should outlast the engine. However, engines with missed oil changes or incorrect oil grades used have been known to wear the chain and sprockets prematurely, leading to tensioner failure, or in some cases, snapped chains.
If you've maintained it correctly from new you should be OK for another 100k+.
It's a pretty big job (actually it's not so big, but it's not easy in the Panda engine bay) and it has been known to go spectacularly wrong if not done methodically using good quality parts.
On the other hand, if it starts making chain-type noises, by all means change it.

 

[Louie Bee]

My panda mj is very soon to pass the 150k mile mark. It's biggest bill was a fuel pump and iir cost around £250 for a recon exchange plus pump to rail pipe, vac pump gasket n a set of crow foot so I could torque the pipe correctly.

I've no intention of changing the timing chain. As I'm not prepared to have a go I don't think the car value warrants the cost of the job.

Maybe if it was noisy I'd think again about having a go but that's me.

If it were a belt I'd have done it long before the scheduled change but not a chain.

 

[jrkitching]

If it were a belt I'd have done it long before the scheduled change but not a chain.

There've been more chain failures reported here than belt failures .

 

[irc]

There've been more chain failures reported here than belt failures .

That's true, but until the Eco changes a broken belt on a 1.1 or 1.2 was just a pain in the a***, and they seem to go way beyond the recommended change intervals anyway. Just re-time, fit new belt and you're off again.
Broken MJ chain is always bad news for valves, usually pistons too, so much more newsworthy.

Still haven't personally come across a MJ with a broken chain that didn't have a dodgy (or non-existent) service history (Fiat or Vauxhall) and I've seen a few with spaceship type mileages and almost no compression still running on their original chain.

 

[Louie Bee]

There've been more chain failures reported here than belt failures .

At the risk of setting my self up for a big engine fail and I told you so....

Is that because there is a service schedule for belts and they are easy to change on the fire engine?

Or because there is only the 1 belt in the MJ and being a multi V its less likley to snap / fall off compared to the old style single V belt.

 

[Wee Smurf]

I'm one of those who had timing chain issues but I wouldn't blame my car just the garage that carried out substandard work. He recommended changing the chain so I let him. I don't know if he changed the guides or not but that was what failed on mine. Mind you, only two weeks later the rear brake shoe delaminated and failed. Luckily it didn't result in a crash. I had a full service just two weeks before the chain failure and the service sheet stated that the rear brakes were good. Strangely he had missed the leak in the rear brake which didn't appear to me to have even been opened up given the effort required by the AA man. Needless to say I wouldn't use that Fiat Alfa specialist for anything ever again!!! And I actively discourage anyone from using him.

 

[irc]

On the highest mileage MJ that I have seen in bits the guides were looking very tired. Chain had quite a bit of "slop" side to side, but they were still working at 255k miles (vauxhall ex postoffice/builder/farmer van)
He took it apart mostly for something to do when it spectacularly failed it's MOT with rust issues. Engine still ran ok but nobody wanted it with that many miles on. Made a few hundred in parts though!

 

[jrkitching]

Is that because there is a service schedule for belts and they are easy to change on the fire engine?

Or because there is only the 1 belt in the MJ and being a multi V its less likley to snap / fall off compared to the old style single V belt.

Perhaps I wasn't being sufficiently clear; I was comparing the 1.3Mjet with the (failsafe) petrol variants. I do find it slightly strange that some 1.1/1.2 owners obsessively change belts that won't lead to anything beyond inconvenience if they fail, whereas some 1.3 owners believe their chain is good for the life of the engine, when the collective experience of this forum shows that it isn't always the case.

And as I'm sure Wee Smurf would agree, if you are going to change either a belt or a chain, change all the related ancillary items at the same time.

100HP owners probably have just cause to be properly cautious; I know of at least one chap who changed theirs annually (but they were also a trackday freak).

 

[Louie Bee]

Perhaps I wasn't being sufficiently clear...

Sorry I was just pulling your leg a bit because it was a brief reply

Thinking about it the only cam belt I had done on a fire engine was soon after buying a 999cc - before I knew it was a safe engine IIR.

since then I've replaced the cam belt twice on a Brave 1.2 16V (second time was when I did the head gasket some years later). Also on a 1301cc Uno turbo

On the other safe engines (1.2 turbo seicento and 1.1 seicento) I never bothered with the cam belt. Maybe because it was the Mrs's car

Before the 999cc Uno i'd owned 903cc Unos and was always told the chain was fit for life. Kind of kept that mentality when the Mrs had the 899cc Cinq version of the pushrod engine.

I don't believe chain driven engines are made as robustley as they used to be. I don't think the chain will last forever on the MJ.

I do keep ontop of oil changes (about every 6 months) and use the correct grade and spec oil to try and look after the internals as best I can.

I just think I'd struggle to sell my high millage Panda for much more than the cost of a timing chain job. If I lost my chain I'd probabley be able to get as much (if not more) parting the car to help keep others on the road o

 

[irc]

I don't believe chain driven engines are made as robustley as they used to be. I don't think the chain will last forever on the MJ.

You're not wrong - the MJ chain really doesn't look up to the job compared to old school camchains, but they are... providing they don't get wrecked by skipped oil changes and sludgy oil.

I had a duplex timing chain from some 1970s diesel engine hanging on the wall of my shed for about 20 years which I regularly used with an engine hoist. Wouldn't want to try that with an MJ chain. Even a new one!

 

[Sweetsixteen]

Ahhh ... duplex,
Nw you're talking. Good duplex chains last forever, but the recent trend towards singe chains and associated chain gear is a cheap cost-cutting measure which the motorist eventually has to pay for.

I have a Merc diesel with a duplex chain setup. These chains are never changed or separately serviced, and the engines are known for over a million miles without any chain trouble.
Mercedes have recently introduced a new engine design for an updated version of my model, and this has a simplex chain. Troubles are now surfacing at very low mileages - especially with short journey or stop/start vehicles. Not only does this often wreck the engine (ouch) but to change the chain, sprockets (high wear rates) and tensioner is an engine out job.

It seems to be the starting torque that gives the high wear rates. Keep a multijet running once started and chan troubles will be fewer.

 

[HannsG]

No dpf issues?

 

[Sweetsixteen]

No dpf issues?

Seanoo doesn't give the year of his Multijet, but guessing by the high mileage it could be before 2009.

After this time, dpf's were fitted to the Panda diesel engine, so if his car is pre-2009 (approx - depending on date of manufacture, not date of UK registration) it is probable that he ain't got no dp horrid f!

 

[seanoo]

Seanoo doesn't give the year of his Multijet, but guessing by the high mileage it could be before 2009.

After this time, dpf's were fitted to the Panda diesel engine, so if his car is pre-2009 (approx - depending on date of manufacture, not date of UK registration) it is probable that he ain't got no dp horrid f!

sorry about the delayed reply but i was away on holiday!! my panda is a 56 plate so no i dont have a dpf. all the best sean