Technical Grande Punto phonic wheel relearn Help

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Technical Grande Punto phonic wheel relearn Help

JSingh1

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Jun 28, 2022
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birmingham
Hello,

Trying to carry out a 1.4 8V grande Punto phonic wheel reset due to flashing engine light and misfire codes when above 60ish mph.

It keeps saying RPM too High.

It is hovering between 680 - 720rpm according to MES.

What is the correct RPM meant to be as surely it shouldn't need to be lower than that? Or how would I even bring it down?

Just had a service done on it 2 months ago and I got the original spark plugs for the garage to use as per Fiat Elearn.

Thanks
 
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Jan 2, 2013
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How are you trying the Phoenic wheel relearn?

If I remember the process it should be:
i. With a warm engine.
ii. Rev up to 5,000rpm hold for 3 seconds.
iii. Let it drop down to idle.
iv. Rev to 5,000rpm hold for 3 seconds.
v. Drop to idle.
vi. Rev to 5,000rpm hold for 3 seconds.
vii. Drop to idle.
viii. Switch right off and wait a few moments.
Then you're done.

No need for MES
 
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JSingh1

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Jun 28, 2022
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How are you trying the Phoenic wheel relearn?
Trying to use MES as wanted to reset self adaptations and then run the phonic relearn procedure option in MES. Using a forscan cable with the MS/HS-can switch.

I did try the manual procedure but it didn't work and I'm not sure if it's because the idle RPM is too high, Like MES reports so won't carry out anything.

even if I don't need to use the software, I'm still trying to understand if 700rpm on idle is too high or if there is a problem with the software/cable.
 

GrandePunto PL

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Apr 22, 2018
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There is something wrong with the engine (internally) or with the wheel or crank sensor (if that's the source of problems, not the symptom).
Idle is 700 RPM typically (Fiat gives tolerance plus/minus 50 RPM).

Reset will NOT help here (that's NOT the purpose of this function - it's there to "clock" the phonic wheel a bit, after removal/refit - it's NOT there to fix bad timing or other issues, like valve clearances, bad fuel or ignition). For example people screw-up the timing belt job and then try to fix the car with reset/learning software options (that's plain stupid).
Fix the misfires first. Classic approach. Means: start with the timing, ignition and fuel.
Of course inspect the phonic wheel (broken tooth or dirty/damaged sensor).

And if you insist (to overdo the resets etc.), yes you do need a software to initiate the procedure, then you do the rev ups (FES/MES tells you the steps).
 
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eeeno

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May 16, 2020
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You didn't mention what kind of service was done to the car. A cambelt change? The garage should fix it for you at no additional cost. They completely botched it.
 
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JSingh1

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Jun 28, 2022
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You didn't mention what kind of service was done to the car. A cambelt change? The garage should fix it for you at no additional cost. They completely botched it.
I believe the cambelt was done by the previous owner through his mate who apparently is a mechanic lol, but I bought it private a while ago and they didn't say there is a misfire code above 60mph or so. So they probs did a bad job, caused the code and then left it. I've had it serviced just oil and filters and also a blowing exhaust
 
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JSingh1

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Jun 28, 2022
Messages
7
Location
birmingham
There is something wrong with the engine (internally) or with the wheel or crank sensor (if that's the source of problems, not the symptom).
Idle is 700 RPM typically (Fiat gives tolerance plus/minus 50 RPM).

Reset will NOT help here (that's NOT the purpose of this function - it's there to "clock" the phonic wheel a bit, after removal/refit - it's NOT there to fix bad timing or other issues, like valve clearances, bad fuel or ignition). For example people screw-up the timing belt job and then try to fix the car with reset/learning software options (that's plain stupid).
Fix the misfires first. Classic approach. Means: start with the timing, ignition and fuel.
Of course inspect the phonic wheel (broken tooth or dirty/damaged sensor).

And if you insist (to overdo the resets etc.), yes you do need a software to initiate the procedure, then you do the rev ups (FES/MES tells you the steps).
Yeah we are idling around 700rpm, give or take 35rpm up/down but MES says that the revs are too high to reset adaptations, & also to carry out the procedure so not sure what's stopping it.

I've heard the misfire code can relate to the timing belt being done bad so the wheel needing to relearn through software which is why I'm attempting it. I've had the spark plugs replaced at service with some NGK ones that match the original spec as per Fiat eLearn.
 

eeeno

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May 16, 2020
Messages
323
What about spark plugs and ht leads? Never changed? It'd not be a surprise. What about pcv hoses? Check those two and read the guides section. A small leak may affect idle. I think a leaking pcv hose may even make the engine misfire quite a bit too. And last but not least the ignition coil. They don't usually need changing but consider changing it if the car has poor spark plugs.

Drive a short trip to get the engine warm and then try the procedure. Warm engine idle is lower.

You could check how much the timing is off from MES to verify. I think it shows that. That misaligned crankshaft pulley with phonic wheel can easity be corrected. Just the alternator belt has to come off and so on.
 
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JSingh1

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Spark plugs were changed, not HT leads or coil pack. Just wanted to see if MES can fix it before putting more money in.

PCV hose I thought of too, but when I had it serviced and air filter was changed. They saw no problems. The garage mainly works on Alfa's so thought they'd have a good eye for any problems.
 
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