General Grande Punto 2006 1.4 - Engine temperature gauge shot up and back down again?

[lmrtw]

Hi,

Had travelled 4 miles today, when the temperature gauge which was in the middle suddenly shot up to red zone, at which point the red light warning light came on. This lasted around 10 seconds, after which the temperature reading then slowly returned to the middle on the gauge and was fine for the last mile I drove.

When the engine was turned off, the fan was still going and only cut off about 2 min.

I have never had any issues with the temperature gauge before.

Does anyone have a suggestion to what could have caused this to happen? Temperature sensor, battery, head gasket leak etc or in what order things should be checked?

Not sure if I can safely drive the car back home or not...

Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[Bernievarian]

Hi (who?)

How did the needle moved ?

- instantly from mid to full right would indicate a bad sensor or an electrial issue
- kept moving on after mid up to full right would indicate a bad thermostat

How is your coolant level ?

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

 

[lmrtw]

Hi Bernievarian,

Thanks for the response. Having checked the coolant its completely empty! I am almost certain I checked all fluid levels about 2 weeks ago and it was fine so this must have happened fairly quickly.

Presumably this points to a leak somewhere... Sorry this raises so many questions...

Where are the main places you would suspect a coolant leak to come from?

What's the easiest way to diagnose a coolant leak?

Is it a case of just re-filling it, running the engine and looking to see if you can find the leak?

If the leak is coming from the head gasket presumably running the engine is not a good idea?

Thanks again,

Mike.

 

[Rado77]

There's no other way how to check leakage...you must fill it with distiled water, run engine (not long !!) and check. It can be anywhere - hoses, waterpump. But it looks that something has gone wrong and you loosed coolant very quickly = head gasket should be ok (anyway if engine is burning water, you'll see smoke from exhaust). Maybe it's very easy to repair (some clasp on hose...)

 

[lmrtw]

Thanks Rado77, that's useful. Is there a specific reason you recommend filing it with distilled water vs more coolant again?

 

[lmrtw]

Thanks Rado77, that's useful. Is there a specific reason you recommend filing it with distilled water vs more coolant again?

Is it simply to avoid wasting money on coolant if there is a leak and it leaks straight back out again?

 

[Bernievarian]

The official way of testing the cooling system for leaks is to pressurize it. Dealers have the exact tool needed for that, but you can do your own if not two left handed...

Go to your favourite scrappy, get the coolant screw cap, drill a hole in it and install a tyre valve. Your tool is ready to replace the original cap. Put some air pressure in the system (filled with coolant/water) and check that it stays in ... You can make a better tool by using a T fitting and a manometer.
Anyway I would first refill it (50/50) and daily check what happens with the level.

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi lmrtw. So sorry to hear of your tribulations. The good news though is that if she's lost that much coolant inside of a fortnight you should be able to see "witness" marks of the leak somewhere. All the usual generic culprits must be checked - Radiator, Hoses, including heater hoses and heater matrix (but if it was the matrix itself you'd probably have wet carpets with a leak this big?) Water pump spindle bearing seal, and so on. At the age your vehicle is you need to look carefully at the seal on the back end of the water pump where the metal coolant pipe enters the casting and the pipe itself which can suffer from very localized corrosion "spots" (so it can look good on a cursory glance but still be leaking) This pipe runs along the front of the engine behind the exhaust manifold and must be suspect.

I agree with the advice above that you need to refill and run the engine to look for leaks. I personally would just fill with tap water (but I wouldn't be leaving it in there any longer than it took to find the leak and our Scottish water is very soft). Then when repaired I would take the opportunity to renew the entire coolant with new. Leaks can be difficult to find. Sometimes only being apparent when the engine is hot, sometimes only when cold, etc. Bernie's idea of getting an old coolant cap and fitting it with a schrader valve works well and is cheap. Just remember not to blow it up beyond about 15psi or you could cause additional failures in old weakened components (and you don't want to damage an otherwise good heater matrix in particular)

Having found your leak and repaired it keep a very close eye on your coolant level (like check it daily) for maybe the next fortnight. You can expect a small level drop over the first day or so as trapped air finds it's way out but after that it should stabilize. The problem is, these engines - in common with many modern engines - just don't like localized hot spots and often react by blowing their head gaskets! If your coolant level has dropped as low as yours probably has this is definitely a possibility. If you are keeping a close eye on your coolant you should be able to detect this before any really serious internal engine damage occurs and it will then be a relatively affordable job to renew this gasket - as compared with sourcing a new engine once you've "cooked" it when it runs out of coolant entirely!

Good luck - fingers crossed for you
Jock

 

[lmrtw]

Hi Bernie & Jock,

Thanks again for your help with this, its appreciated!

I've been seriously busy the last couple of days, however picked up some ready mixed coolant today to put back into the vehicle tomorrow. I did consider using tap water, however I'm in a hard water area so decided against it and I don't even know where I would buy distilled water (as Bernie suggested) from...

I also picked up a bottle of KSEAL coolant leak repair as apparently The AA breakdown service carry this, so presumably it must be ok! Also a friend of mine said they used this for a coplant leak they had and it stopped it. I guess whether I use it or not will depend on what happens when I put the coolant back in and run the engine.

Will report back after adding more coolant tomorrow.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Yes, distilled water is not so easy to find these days but Halfords sell deionized water in 5 litre containers for peanuts and they actually state on the container that it's suitable for coolant. That's what I use mixed 50/50 with concentrate.

I'm not keen on tipping sealant into the cooling system. Sometimes it works quite well at stopping the leak itself but I've seen the resulting accumulation of gunge it leaves behind in all the nooks and crannies where flow is low. In my experience it's subsequently very difficult to then later shift this. It always then worries me that local hot spots may be created where this buildup is restricting flow?

 

[everson38]

Yeah I agree with the above I wouldn't use the sealant in the system. Whilst it may stop the leak and it looks all great in the outside. On the inside it could be clogging and caus9ng more damage than its worth. Whatever the issue is know that someone on the forum has done the job and we can help u get it sorted. You can get 5L of deionised water from halfords , euro car parts and car parts 4 less (last 2 are same company - Just car parts 4 less is online version) . You can get it delivered for £2.97

 

[Bernievarian]

Re-fill it, pressurize it and check for leaks when cold/stopped. If no leakage appears, start the engine and let it warm it up. Once at working temperature check again for leakage, the pression might increase (why the "T" and the permanant manometer is a must). If there is a leak but you can't see it, it is internal, head gasket or head itself ! In this case you should have other symptoms, like white smoke (steam), mayonnaise at the oil filler cap, bubles in the expansion tank ... I would "risk" the sealant stuff only if it's not an external leak; anyhow without any guarantee !!

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

 

[lmrtw]

Thanks all for your feedback and all those that have provided their helpful input. I've learn't a lot!

So I didn't need the KSEAL in the end as the leak was easily found. Based on the feedback I'm not sure I would have used it anyway for all the reasons given.

The top hose clip had corroded, replaced clip and all is well now

Will check out the other clips as they could be on the way out too...

 

[Bernievarian]

Thanks for the update Mike, another job well done !!

BTW, hose & clips inspection is (should be) part of the standard maintenance @ the workshop, together with levels, brake pads wear, CVT boots etc ...

Cheers, Bernie

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I echo Bernie's thanks - it's always nice to know the outcome. I'm glad for you that it was such a simple and inexpensive fix. At the risk of sounding a bit of a "Job's comforter" can I just suggest that you keep a very close eye on your coolant level for the next fortnight or so? This is because it's just possible (although you seem to have, wisely, stopped driving as soon as the fault was noticed) that the head gasket could have suffered due to the overheating. Hopefully though this won't be the case.
best wishes
Jock

PS - take a good look at that metal pipe that runs along the front of the block too.

 

[lmrtw]

I echo Bernie's thanks - it's always nice to know the outcome. I'm glad for you that it was such a simple and inexpensive fix. At the risk of sounding a bit of a "Job's comforter" can I just suggest that you keep a very close eye on your coolant level for the next fortnight or so? This is because it's just possible (although you seem to have, wisely, stopped driving as soon as the fault was noticed) that the head gasket could have suffered due to the overheating. Hopefully though this won't be the case.
best wishes
Jock

PS - take a good look at that metal pipe that runs along the front of the block too.

Thanks Pugglt Auld Jock, this is really good advice, will definitely keep an eye on coolant levels for a couple of weeks. As you say, hopefully no damage done to head gasket as I stopped fairly quickly after noticing the issue however you never know...

Thanks all again, this is a fantastic resource for Fiat owners!