Technical Gearbox oil change

[Fiatfarmer]

Goodevening Pugglt,

Well, I guess equipment won’t be a problem… the most versatile stuff like ratchets, breakerbar, sockets, torquewrenches, even a tig welder I got myself, but specialist/expensive stuff like a hydraulic press won’t be a problem either, I work as a volunteer at a local public transport museum and there they also got all sorts of tools, also specialist/expensive ones, like a hydraulic press!

Kind regards!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Goodevening Pugglt,

Well, I guess equipment won’t be a problem… the most versatile stuff like ratchets, breakerbar, sockets, torquewrenches, even a tig welder I got myself, but specialist/expensive stuff like a hydraulic press won’t be a problem either, I work as a volunteer at a local public transport museum and there they also got all sorts of tools, also specialist/expensive ones, like a hydraulic press!

Kind regards!

Sounds like you're well set up to tackle this and even if you yourself don't have experience doing this sort of job I'll bet someone else at the museum will know.

Do let us know how it goes won't you.

 

[Fiatfarmer]

If the whine in the transmission has started immediately after the oil change, then the oil could be a factor. If that is the case, get some Fiat Tutela oil and change it. Then do it again after a few weeks, to get more of the residue out.
If the whine was already there, the oil will be less relevant. All gearboxes wear, and whine is the usual result, most will shine for a very long time before any failure occurs. Of course, the type of whine tells a story, and woould need someone experienced to listen to it to tell if it was just wear, or imminent danger. My Panda is now on 85k miles (137,000 kilometres). The gearbox whines a little, due to wear, but nothing shouts failure at me. (Thanks for the reminder, I must look at when I last changed the oil in it.)

Best advice, get a local experienced mechanic to drive and listen to it. A video recording posted on here is unlikely to be conclusive.

Goodevening portland_bill,

I can’t remember if the whine was already there it was a few months back when I started too get annoyed by the whine and since it’s also a few months back when I changed the oil? she’s now driven approx. 129.200 kms. I’ve got a Fiat/Mazda dealer on the other side of town, about an 8 minute drive, should I knock at their door for “the whine”?

Kind regards!

 

[Fiatfarmer]

Sounds like you're well set up to tackle this and even if you yourself don't have experience doing this sort of job I'll bet someone else at the museum will know.

Do let us know how it goes won't you.

People always tell me I’m way too f*ing handy in fixing stuff so… I personally think I’m not, people also tell me I think way too negative about myself. Oh yeah, right, they also tell me I’ve got way too much tools!

Aaah, right, just like I would let you guys know what my compression values were?! just pops up into my mind, I’ll look up the thread again, I’ll post my values there!

Chears!

 

[Fiatfarmer]

We need more info on your vehicle to give informed advice. What model, engine, year of manufacture, etc. As far as viscosity is concerned I'd be very surprised if using a 75w85 instead of a 75w90 had any noticeable effect.

There have been many posts, and arguments, on the forum concerning lubricants for both engines and transmissions. We run a 2010 Panda with the 1.2 FIRE engine. Both the engine and gearbox in this are pretty basic so as long as you are using an oil of the correct viscosity you are unlikely to have problems. Not so long ago there was a big, and well founded, scare about using an API GL5 spec oil in a transmission where GL4 was recommended. The problem was that the GL5 contained an aggressive additive package - which had many advantages for transmissions which could handle it but which caused accelerated wear on soft, some call them "yellow", metals. So stuff like synchro rings, bronze bushings and certain selector forks. It could do serious and irreversible damage to transmissions which couldn't tolerate it. - I believe that now these additives have been modified &/or changed so this is not now such a problem - but it would worry me that I might get some of the older stock? I'm a bit obsessed with lubricants so I always buy oils which comply with the relevant FIAT spec. So for our Panda it's FIAT 9.55535-S2 in the engine and 9.55550-MX3 for the gearbox. So, as I've used FUCHS engine oils for many years, I use their Titan GT1 5W40 which they rate to the Fiat spec and Tutela Technyx - which I buy from S4p and which is the oil Fiat put in it at original fill, This add shows the oil spec: https://www.auto-ricambi.eu/transmission-oil-tutela-technyx-75w85-p15349/

I am sure that these older vehicles with their simpler mechanicals will probably tolerate more "general" spec oils but I wouldn't take such liberties with a modern spec vehicle. For instance my newer Ibiza has one of these small highly stressed turbo petrol engines and I would always use an oil which exactly meets the VAG spec as this type of engine puts a lot of stress on it's oil. So I use Fuchs Titan GT1 Pro C3 5w-30 which meets the higher VW 504 spec (502 is also acceptable, but a lower spec) The 504 spec is suitable for "extended interval servicing" but I change it every year - no extended service intervals for me! When the time comes to change the transmission oil - which I do on all the cars in the "family fleet" at around the 50.000 mile mark - I will be using actual VW branded product. Why? because I'm told this box is known to be intolerant of inferior oils and can suffer failure of the caset'd bearing assembly on the end of the main and layshafts and also there is a small needle roller bearing which can overheat and destroy itself, especially if the oil level drops. Consequently I check the oil level every service and keep an eye on drive shaft seals etc. I'm told that the genuine VW oil contains additives which are not present in aftermarket oils specifically to address this? Who knows if that's the case but as there's not a lot of oil involved and I'll probably only be doing it once in the time I own the car I don't think it's worth cutting corners just to save a "couple of bob"!

Goodevening Pugglt,

All of a sudden I thought about of this reply of yours and I especially thought about the bit of the scare of using an API GL5 in a transmission where API GL4 was recommended, but I think I won’t worry about this that much, since in the instructionmanual of the car is noted that an API GL5 is recommended for my Sei.

Just wanted to let you know.

Kind regards.

PS. Just because I’m a bit curious, where does the name pugglt come from? I’m familiar with the meaning old, worn out and exhausted, since you explained that part to me. (If you don’t want to tell, it’s also fine by me).

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Goodevening Pugglt,

All of a sudden I thought about of this reply of yours and I especially thought about the bit of the scare of using an API GL5 in a transmission where API GL4 was recommended, but I think I won’t worry about this that much, since in the instructionmanual of the car is noted that an API GL5 is recommended for my Sei.

Just wanted to let you know.

Kind regards.

PS. Just because I’m a bit curious, where does the name pugglt come from? I’m familiar with the meaning old, worn out and exhausted, since you explained that part to me. (If you don’t want to tell, it’s also fine by me).

Thanks for that. Yes the GL4/GL5 "thing" and it's use in our gearboxes puzzles me. It seems to fluctuate from year to year with seemingly no difference in the gearbox itself. I like to just play it safe by using the actual gearbox oil recommended for a specific vehicle by Fiat - which for both our Panda and my boy's Punto is the Tutela Technyx 75w/85 to API GL4 plus. It's readily available and costs little more than risking an alternative which might or might not be compatible.

The Pugglt just popped into my mind! Like many of us I suspect, I'd been lurking about on the forum for some time before registering and making a post. When I was thinking about what name to use I first thought of just using my nick name - Jock - but then thought, Jock is actually quite a common name up here so I then thought Auld Jock (Auld being Scots for old) might be more appropriate - because I am old! As I was thinking about this it made me think about when my mother first started calling me Jock which was when my dad returned from the war in Burma back at the very beginning of the '50s - He was in REME and stayed on out there after the war ended to help rebuild some of the infrastructure - bridges, roads, etc. When he returned she told me that caused a problem because my grandad (who lived in the house next door) my dad and me all had the same first name, so I became Jock to differentiate and I've been Jock ever since. That then set my mind to thinking about other stuff from when I was young and I started thinking about all the happy times I had when I was just a youngster, roaming the countryside from dawn to dusk, swimming in the river in just my underpants and guddling for fish under the banks. Soon after my dad came home and joined granddad in the family business, we moved out of town to a house out in the country with 3 fields around it. My dad was more than busy enough running the family business - grandad was pretty old by now - but he, dad, wanted also to make the property work so he employed a chap who had been a gardener before the war and had been, like my dad, in Burma. He was physically a large very fit chap and I was impressed by him. Unfortunately for him he was captured and spent time in a POW camp. On reflection, and now being older with a bit of life experience behind me, I realize he had obviously been deeply affected by his experiences but the two of us got on very well indeed and I rather idolized him. He had a most wonderful vocabulary of words, most of which I had no idea of what they meant. Transmogrify being one he used a lot. He used to make tomato plant fertilizer in a big 50 gallon oil drum by half filling it with water and then stirring in the horse manure and other "organic" components. The smell was never to be forgotten! He called this mixture "Kacky Tomato Jippo". This is where the Pugglt comes from. For instance our top field was used to grow Potatoes. We didn't have a tractor but we did have a large, walk behind, cultivator. This machine was an absolute beast and took a lot of physical effort to control. After a day of fighting this machine he would say "Young Jock, I'm too old for this it's left me fair Pugglt"! Pugglt is how I now feel if I have a big job to do on one of the cars, so Pugglt Auld Jock just sounded "right".