General gearbox noise

[Currymunster]

Hi everyone,

Used to be a Uno fan and now grown up.
Just bought a 2004 1.2 Punto for my daughter.
Noisy gearbox so assumed it was the input shaft bearing.
I've dropped the box and removed the bell housing only to find

that it is not the input shaft bearing !!
Its the bigger one next to it on what looks like the main shaft.
so, is it possible to change it please?
Does anyone know how to do it so i can restore my daughters faith in me.
I will try and post a pic

Many thanks

 

[Currymunster]

Hope you can see these
James

 

[judderbar]

You can do that yourself but you will need to get either a very long puller or use a 6 inch puller with pieces of chain.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/CUSCINETTO...2528S09H100-46763885-D-37x73x17-/262790933273

Same manufacturer and model as i got from my car.


If you undo the steel end you can then undo the nuts to release the gears from the case.

The box is easy to work on with no shims or adjustments. The full fiat repair manual for this gearbox is in the Palio section of the guides of this forum.

For about 130 pounds you can buy all of the bearings plus the differential bearings.


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-500...014542?hash=item2ce145e24e:g:ynAAAOSw~odcRZK-

Seal up the steel end with black silicone and use an anaeorbic sealant for the aluminium end.


https://www.permatex.com/products/g...nge-sealants/permatex-anaerobic-gasket-maker/

 

[Currymunster]

Thanks for your reply,
Very helpful thanks
I've downloaded the manual already!!
I'm having trouble removing the secondry shaft nut though
It says to select two gears at the same time to lock the gears for nut removal. Do you know how to do that please?
Thanks
James

 

[Currymunster]

Hi,
I've worked out how to lock the box.
I only want to remove the secondary shaft so do I need to remove both nuts and both shafts or can i remove only the one??

 

[judderbar]

Hi,
I've worked out how to lock the box.
I only want to remove the secondary shaft so do I need to remove both nuts and both shafts or can i remove only the one??

Both will have to come out.

Locking the box by selecting two gears is one thing, the next thing is holding the box against the force needed to undo the 120nm nuts. I put a long bar in the box for that. Bit of a wing and prayer effort but nothing broke.

 

[Currymunster]

Many Thanks for your reply.
I think this is the primary shaft bearing from reading the manual.
I've already undone the stake nut on that one.
Need to undo the secondary one now.
But alas, I have no garage so doing all outside and back to work tomorrow and a few errands to do today.
Besides, I'm going to have to wait for the parts.

I undid it by putting the bell housing back on and using a ratchet and hammer so its like an old fashion impact driver.
Thanks for your help so far.
I'll keep posting my progress on here.
James

 

[judderbar]

Many Thanks for your reply.
I think this is the primary shaft bearing from reading the manual.
I've already undone the stake nut on that one.
Need to undo the secondary one now.
But alas, I have no garage so doing all outside and back to work tomorrow and a few errands to do today.
Besides, I'm going to have to wait for the parts.

I undid it by putting the bell housing back on and using a ratchet and hammer so its like an old fashion impact driver.
Thanks for your help so far.
I'll keep posting my progress on here.
James

You did the right thing by putting it back on the engine. I would have hated myself if that casing had broken but I went ahead anyway.

Some things you should note if it is not already too late:

There are 3 small spring things that hold some of the gears when you are in gear. I think on my car they were a different design to the ones in the manual. I think they only go together one way but it saves a lot of hassle if you know which way they go before you start putting all of the parts together. Likewise the synchromesh hubs can apparently go together either side down onto the shaft and then you are taking it apart and checking and wondering if it is different. Most of the gearbox is fairly obvious but I did have those hubs apart a few times before I was convinced it was not wrong. Putting all of the parts onto a piece of string as you remove them will save alot of hassle.


Also on the secondary shaft you are going to be working on there are needle bearings. They do not fall apart but it seems best to put them on the way they came off. When you take the spring clips that retain some of the items on the shaft it would be a good idea to put thin strong tape on the shaft. I got a scratch under the needle bearings which previously otherwise were in perfect condition. Getting one of those clips off was a hell of a job. It is very thin and you have to get small curved pieces of wire under the clip to have some chance of getting it out of the groove and then it goes at an angle and scratches the shaft as it comes off. It was impossible to get a circlip plier to hold it for more than a tiny movement before it sprung back. I had to come at with two small screwdrivers as i recall - I think I even had something in my teeth at the same time!

 

[Currymunster]

It sounds like a lot of fun!!
One question...What did you use to drift the bearings back on over the length of the shaft?

 

[judderbar]

It sounds like a lot of fun!!
One question...What did you use to drift the bearings back on over the length of the shaft?

I am not sure now. think I used the bearing splitter with a large plumbers nut and one way or another of pulling the splitter towards the large pinion which has a central hole? I have used the large socket as the pinion and extension as the shaft so you can see what it would have looked like. I might have used the legs of the pullers on the splitter,


The large bearing you want to remove was on tight. but the other stuff was not particularly tight. You could probably push most of it back on other than that large bearing

 

[Currymunster]

Spent the whole day on it today. Stipped the gears off and used a two legged puller and another two legs removed from another set taped and cable tied to the first one to lengthen them. Worked a treat. Changed both the front bearings and the oil seal. So many shards of metal in the gearbox! All cleaned and back together with anaerobic sealant.
All fitted back together in the car but can't go anywhere as I need the 75w80 oil for the box. The Clutch took a while to work out how to bleed with its plastic slave and non screw-in bleed nipple!
So can't drive it yet with no oil but I can certainly select all gears so something must be correct.
I did notice the tin cover over the two nuts is cracked. The little pipe that sticks out into the fifth gear.
What would that cause if anyone knows?
Thanks for all your help.
James

 

[Currymunster]

Just to let you know that I have now driven it and the gearbox is now silent and smooth with lovely gear changes.
Wish I could say the same for the EPS!
Thanks for all your help ???

 

[judderbar]

Just to let you know that I have now driven it and the gearbox is now silent and smooth with lovely gear changes.
Wish I could say the same for the EPS!
Thanks for all your help ???

Good to here that. :slayer:

 

[Currymunster]

Hi,
I noticed today that the tin cover on the end of the gearbox is now leaking oil
I used Granville black RTV for that.
The book says to use Silicone sealant 7091
I've looked and it only comes up with dow corning 7091.
But its almost £17 a tube!!
Any alternatives????

 

[judderbar]

Hi,
I noticed today that the tin cover on the end of the gearbox is now leaking oil
I used Granville black RTV for that.
The book says to use Silicone sealant 7091
I've looked and it only comes up with dow corning 7091.
But its almost £17 a tube!!
Any alternatives????

I think any black RTV should be sufficient. Most likely you had a trace of oil or did not clean up the surfaces sufficiently - trace of oil problems again.

 

[Currymunster]

I think any black RTV should be sufficient. Most likely you had a trace of oil or did not clean up the surfaces sufficiently - trace of oil problems again.

Thanks... When I took it apart I cleaned it all and it was apart for a good few days.
I even cleaned it with some petrol before I assembled it.
I suppose a trace of oil may have found its way in... Or maybe the fuel effected it?
Also the RTV was in my tool box opened for a few months. Is Granville any good?
I suppose at least I don't need to drop the gearbox to do that job!
Cheers ???

 

[jackwhoo]

Thanks... When I took it apart I cleaned it all and it was apart for a good few days.
I even cleaned it with some petrol before I assembled it.
I suppose a trace of oil may have found its way in... Or maybe the fuel effected it?
Also the RTV was in my tool box opened for a few months. Is Granville any good?
I suppose at least I don't need to drop the gearbox to do that job!
Cheers [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

I think you were just unlucky.

Don't know about Granville, other than he did good work in open all hours.

I use loctite rtv sealant 5920 or 5990

They do not last well once opened .

Jack

Rtv is not happy with fuel

 

[judderbar]

Thanks... When I took it apart I cleaned it all and it was apart for a good few days.
I even cleaned it with some petrol before I assembled it.
I suppose a trace of oil may have found its way in... Or maybe the fuel effected it?
Also the RTV was in my tool box opened for a few months. Is Granville any good?
I suppose at least I don't need to drop the gearbox to do that job!
Cheers ������

Pretty annoying it has not worked.

Granville make a black water proofing RTV for cars in a large tube needing a skeleton gun.


Liquid in the screw holes? Gasket tighened too quickly? Let it go tacky and finger tighten initially. Torque is super low. 8? Keep oil away for 24 hours unless you have something like permatex right stuff which can get oil after 20 minutes. You will need to keep the cover upright or wait until the oil stops draining?? These jobs are not easy without compressed air and a workshop.

 

[Currymunster]

I think you were just unlucky.

Don't know about Granville, other than he did good work in open all hours.

I use loctite rtv sealant 5920 or 5990

They do not last well once opened .

Jack

Rtv is not happy with fuel

I didn't know it didn't like fuel.
I've always had new cars and really don't know much about all this sealant.
I'm used to paper gaskets and grease with a bit of blue hylomar sometimes.
Thanks. I will clean it up a
Reassemble with no fuel and new fresh RTV.
??

 

[Currymunster]

Pretty annoying it has not worked.

Granville make a black water proofing RTV for cars in a large tube needing a skeleton gun.


Liquid in the screw holes? Gasket tighened too quickly? Let it go tacky and finger tighten initially. Torque is super low. 8? Keep oil away for 24 hours unless you have something like permatex right stuff which can get oil after 20 minutes. You will need to keep the cover upright or wait until the oil stops draining?? These jobs are not easy without compressed air and a workshop.

All that as well... I used red thread lock on the bolts but I did tighten it straight away. My wrench only went down to 25nm so I guessed it by hand ??
I'm not doing the box so I'll just have to leave the oil to drain. It's not being used so I could leave it draining a few days