Technical Gearbox going?

[Herts Hillhopper]

For info: the stop/start restarting after 25 seconds is because the battery voltage sensors detects the voltage is dropping too far, so it restarts to get the alternator charging it again. That might suggest either the battery is old, or you have something turned on (headlights for example) that is draining the battery. It will also restart if you have climate control and it senses that the temperature inside the car is changing (getting too hot or cooling below the temperature you've selected)

 

[gar074]

Re: Gearbox going (Updated DMF Seized)

I've never had to replace a clutch in nearly 40 years of car ownership, despite running some cars for well over 100k miles, so my idea of how much it costs to replace one is hazy at best. I stand corrected. I was shocked recently to find that a simple alternator replacement on the wife's horrible Volvo was north of £350 at an independent, and that for a reconditioned alternator. But then, if Fiat can charge over £100 for an inspection service that involves little more than kicking the tyres, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the prices shoot up if they actually have to get the spanners out.

 

[Goudrons]

Fiat's stop/start is a rough piece of work at best and doesn't seem to work well for long.

It just uses a slightly uprated battery and starter motor with a voltage sensor and switch on the clutch, it's debatable if it actually saves anything as the engine gets loaded to recharge the battery back to the correct level after restarting.

Most manufacturers have ditched this for more reliable and cleaner systems.
Mazda's Skyactiv stops the engine with a cylinder on a compression stroke, then when it's time to restart, it fires that cylinder to restart the engine and off you go.

My Berlingo E-HDi uses a hybrid alternator and a capacitor.
Excess charge generated on the over run and/or braking is stored in the capacitor, then it spins up the alternator with this charge to fire up the engine.
It work too perfect, it actually knocks the engine off a second or so before you actually stop!

 

[BigYellowPanda]

Re: Gearbox going (Updated DMF Seized)

Quicker or smoother lol?

It's that rattle through the gearstick that seems to be the clue of things going wrong with the DMF/clutch, although my experience was combined with the clutch "bite" heading towards the floor.

Well my problems continue, despite having been fully informative and chasing for progress on my Panda Cross, Stoneacre Hyde have apparently tried the following since the 28th April... Fiat bulletin to add spacers to the drive train... contemplated but not undertaken any dismantling and checks of the clutch and DMF... They are now proposing that a 2nd opinion from a technician who has experienced the same issue advises that the rear differential is the likely cause.... so will look at that instead.. almost 6 weeks on and I have no trust in their word, as I can never get a straight answer from them, even speaking to the branch manager directly.. I have no faith in their problem solving or commitment at this point and have no idea when the car will be back on the road... so much for having confidence in a 3yr old car and a 5mnth extended warranty if the car is off the road unusable for ridiculous amounts of time.

 

[BigYellowPanda]

Re: Gearbox going (Updated DMF Seized)

Well my problems continue, despite having been fully informative and chasing for progress on my Panda Cross, Stoneacre Hyde have apparently tried the following since the 28th April... Fiat bulletin to add spacers to the drive train... contemplated but not undertaken any dismantling and checks of the clutch and DMF... They are now proposing that a 2nd opinion from a technician who has experienced the same issue advises that the rear differential is the likely cause.... so will look at that instead.. almost 6 weeks on and I have no trust in their word, as I can never get a straight answer from them, even speaking to the branch manager directly.. I have no faith in their problem solving or commitment at this point and have no idea when the car will be back on the road... so much for having confidence in a 3yr old car and a 5mnth extended warranty if the car is off the road unusable for ridiculous amounts of time.

So apparently... now a group of technicians armed with a stethoscope have run the car on a ramp and listened to the various elements of drivetrain and concluded now that the vibration is loudest at the gearbox, so have now abandoned the differential idea and will revert back to separating the gearbox from engine to check the clutch and gearbox.. finally! Maybe next week they will actually undertake the work as we pass the 6 week marker...:bang:

 

[BigYellowPanda]

Well mines been waiting at Stoneacre in Hyde since Saturday morning and they haven’t even looked at it yet, saying loads of breakdowns so won’t be looked until end of week!

Any news on yours?

Ok so week 8 now still no car... Stoneacre have outsourced it to Tameside Transmissions who have now completed the work in record time by comparison and advised it was clutch/DMF replacement.. Awaiting call from Stoneacre to say they have a repaired car for me (the damage), and I will be wanting to see the removed parts.. what would I be expecting to see for this common breakdown defect of the clutch and DMF? How does it differ from normal wear and tear... Fiat Panda Cross 62 plate, 0.8 TA 85PS Petrol...:idea:

 

[varesecrazy]

Unfortunately.. I could have advised of dmf..clutch failure in seconds..not weeks.

Local to Oxford member had the same.

Abuse by previous owner unfortunately.

However..once sorted..properly..

That is one of the biggest potential failures out of the way.

Charlie

 

[Panda IIs]

Ok so week 8 now still no car... Stoneacre have outsourced it to Tameside Transmissions who have now completed the work in record time by comparison and advised it was clutch/DMF replacement.. Awaiting call from Stoneacre to say they have a repaired car for me (the damage), and I will be wanting to see the removed parts.. what would I be expecting to see for this common breakdown defect of the clutch and DMF? How does it differ from normal wear and tear... Fiat Panda Cross 62 plate, 0.8 TA 85PS Petrol...:idea:

Sorry, no one likes a smart alec but see my post on page 1 of this thread.

I didn't see the failed parts but the clue was in the vibration (through the gearstick) and reluctance to shift up gears. Mine was replaced at approx. 54k miles and was likely combination of previous owner and much slipping of clutch as it was running on one cylinder intermittently due to uni-air failure. At least you know what's in there now. At the same time the changed out the selector cables which were relatively cheap as parts and they were messing around in there anyway.

 

[jrkitching]

How does it differ from normal wear and tear...

It might not. DMF's are generally considered a wear and tear item and are often not covered by warranties; it's a common exclusion in extended warranty contracts.

A quick search of the internet will throw up hundreds, if not thousands, of stories from disgruntled owners facing big bills they thought they'd be covered for.

I'd agree the time that's been taken to disgnose this is shameful, but if you get it fixed under warranty, you've done well. Many others with similar faults, some on relatively new and low mileage vehicles, have paid many hundreds of pounds, across all marques.

 

[Mouse1903]

Thread bump. So I've had my 4x4 Twinair for 5 days now and I did notice an occasional vibration through the gearstick. Today I had a 200 mile round trip on mainly motorway with town segments and can now confirm there's a large amount of vibration between 3.5k and 4.5k rpm. The minute it hits 3.5k rpm it starts. Even when you are coming down the rev range to 3.5k.

I'll try upload a video but wondering what my next steps are? As it's a 2013 63 plate I'm assuming it doesn't have the DMF. The car has a 3 month warranty from the garage I got it from but assuming they may just blame wear and tear. Car is just about to hit 46k and whilst it has full service history it has 3 previous owners so I can't account for their driving styles.

I could phone them and take it from there, or pay my local independent 4x4 specialist to take out the clutch to inspect things further?

Edit: just read the excluded items in the warranty and it simply says "clutch friction facings"

 

[Panda IIs]

Thread bump. So I've had my 4x4 Twinair for 5 days now and I did notice an occasional vibration through the gearstick. Today I had a 200 mile round trip on mainly motorway with town segments and can now confirm there's a large amount of vibration between 3.5k and 4.5k rpm. The minute it hits 3.5k rpm it starts. Even when you are coming down the rev range to 3.5k.

I'll try upload a video but wondering what my next steps are? As it's a 2013 63 plate I'm assuming it doesn't have the DMF. The car has a 3 month warranty from the garage I got it from but assuming they may just blame wear and tear. Car is just about to hit 46k and whilst it has full service history it has 3 previous owners so I can't account for their driving styles.

I could phone them and take it from there, or pay my local independent 4x4 specialist to take out the clutch to inspect things further?

Edit: just read the excluded items in the warranty and it simply says "clutch friction facings"

Hi my '63 plate 4x4TA most definitely DID have a DMF so I am not sure your assumption is correct?

Vibration through the gearstick (especially 2nd and 3rd gears) certainly seemed to be an indicator of DMF issues but at the same time the clutch was on its way out (pedal bite got closer and closer to the floor). You are in a difficult situation since (unless you have other twin air experience) only having the TA for a week or so it may be more difficult to distinguish the twin "normal" vibrations with those from a failing DMF... Mine was replaced at 54k Miles BTW.

 

[lunchbeers]

I'm led to believe the EU5 Twinairs have a solid flywheel, the EU6 has a DMF, along with all the 105hp versions.

No idea if the EU5 engine in the 4x4 has a solid flywheel or DMF though.

The EU6 came in late 2013, my 13 plate is an EU5 so fingers crossed it's a solid one.