Technical Fuel Filler Pipe

[Lima]

I posted the following in the Punto section as there was a lot of discussion on petrol smells previously, but am posting here too as I have had no response yet. Anyone else with a B had the same probs..?

PASTE:
It may be a 3 year old thread, but it is relevant to me this week. It makes interesting reading, especially the bit about leaving your car for several weeks and the ECU relearning what it forgot. That's a good thing to remember (me that is, not the ECU)

I left my Barchetta for about 2 months with the battery off. Everything seemed fine for the first couple of days, but then it really started to smell of petrol when I was driving with the windows down and also in the boot. There is no evedence of leakage even with the engine on and revving and it doesn't smell from outside.

It does not appear to be using any more petrol than normal (I have covered about 500kms now), but the other day whilst filling up, the pump didn't cut out and petrol gushed out of the filler and onto my shoes. I moaned to the attendant and suggested that they sort out the pump but I was informed that there must be something wrong with my car as the pump relies on some jiggery-pokery from the tank/ filler neck/ vent to operate corectly. Could this be right?

I will get the filter changed as it would appear that 90% of this thread revolves around that and it's a cheap piece of kit to replace, but I'd like to know if there might be an issue with the filler neck? If anyone has a Haynes Manual for a punto, can they look to see if it explains what the filler/ vent does, and if they get blocked occassionally... I am struggling to find a Haynes manual for a Barchetta (they are related after all)

 

[Nino_1975]

Hi

I had this exact problem. I found it was the fuel cap. The seal had gone. Take it off and look at the plastic seal. Is it cracked?

PM me if you need one.

 

[Lima]

Thanks Nino... I will check the cap when I am next with the car. Not sure that it would affect the petrol pump cut off though... perhaps that is a separate problem altogether.

BTW, I started a new thread as the other one about petrol smell was not very informative... consisting of 2 pages of suggestive smilies!

 

[docorangepeel]

The guy who had my Barchetta before me had a fuel leak around the fuel neck as I have paperwork for a repair. When I moved the battery into the boot I removed the panel behind the seats and I could see evidence of a fuel leak all under the tank.

The in line fuel filter is under the car just behind the passenger seat and in front of the rear wheel swing arm. As it's outside the car I cant see that would give you such a strong smell inside the car. It only takes 30 mins to remove the panel so it's best to check if you think you have a leak.

 

[Lima]

Thanks Doc - photo useful. However, I am no DocOrangePeel and so I would imagine that it'll take me more than 30 minutes and then some more to remove the subwoofer thingy. Will pick a quiet weekend to investigate, and I will put a sticky note on the dash to remind me to disconnect the battery before removing the seats! Cheers for the pointers.

 

[RnRollie]

see my reply here

https://www.fiatforum.com/barchetta/183121-petrol-smell-car-2.html

 

[Nino_1975]

Smells are hard to locate as the wind at different speeds sends air around your car (Hence the reason for a wind stop and F1 spending cash on wind tunnels) air flows over your wind screen and circulates back into the cockpit, air does not go in a straight line and changes at different heights. Do you smell the fuel when the heaters are on?

Loads of things to look at.

Look at all your pipes, take the cover off that Doc mentioned. See if that is dry or not. Does it happen all the time or when you fill the tank. Change the clips in the engine bay and then travel along the fuel line.

Are your injectors ok? does your engine bay have signs of spillage?

Loads of stuff to investigate. It took me 6mths to realise my fuel cap seal was the issue. But Doc had something different, same smell!

So we are all right and all wrong. Just let us know what you checked so others can check. Good luck. :idea:

 

[Lima]

Well the chap at the local garage shrugged his shoulders and said he couldn't see any sign of a fuel leak. I'd left the car with him for 2 weeks to do an oil service and sort the fuel problem, and even drawn a diagram of where the fuel tank was hidden. Clearly, his business hadn't been affected by the global crisis, and so he didn't need the extra money! He just changed the oil, filter and plugs in those 2 weeks - that's about right for Portugal!

So, the best part of my Easter weekend was spent travelling to and from the B's temporary continental home plus a few hours tinkering. So, as an update to this thread, I can confirm the following:

I removed the sub-woofer unit and, the rear section of the console, the interior trim and the metal panel which encases the tank area… with the aid of Doc's picture (not of Doc himself mind… of the fuel tank area!). To all forum members more savvy than me, please correct the following assumptions if applicable, but I do not have my B workshop manual CD here with me and I was making seemingly educated guesses as to what was what: Slap bang in the centre of the top of the tank is what I imagine to be the pump. To the right of this is a smaller outlet which I am guessing is the filter (in the tank?) and tucked up within the driver's side rear wheel arch is a pressure regulator or something (given the return pipes to the tank).

Assuming that the above is correct, then I could see clear evidence that fuel had been leaking out of the filter aperture. I had already bought a fuel filter in anticipation of changing it any way, but I was expecting an in-line arrangement much like my Fulvia. I guess I was wrong. The part I bought (as advised by the local halfords-esque car parts shop) looks like a large in line filter, but does it just dangle in the tank… I don't think so. As yet I have not removed the fixings from the tank, as I thought I'd pick the brains of all on the forum before doing so. If anyone has a pic or reference for the filter, please post it on this thread for me – thanks.

I deconstructed the B further still on Saturday, and ended up removing the seats and some trim in order to dry the floor lining underneath and soak up the dampness that was festering on the floorpan. No rusty spots thankfully but it whiffed a bit like a fairground bumper car. Whilst I had tools in hand I also removed the roof gas struts (which had no force left in them at all) and the tonneau cover seal.

I will get chastised for asking this question yet again, but LRB… where did you say I could get the stronger gas struts from again? And where should I get a brand new seal from… FIAT?

Incidentally, as I was packing my things away, and saying goodnight to a very bare looking B, I noticed a removable panel which lurks beneath the lining of the roof stow area. I think this panel affords access to the fuel pump and filter for servicing without the need to dismantle the interior! Still… at least I got to check everything there and sweep away a few dead spiders.

In summary then... it was bugger all to do with the fuel filler pipe, the petrol station were talking nonsense and everyone from the Punto and Barchetta sections who rightly identified the filter as the culpret, give yourselves a pat on the back

Marky

 

[docorangepeel]

Upgraded gas struts come from barchettaparts.com

On the older Barchetta (Pre 99) The fuel filter was an inline affair just in front of the rear PS wheel under the car. After 1999 the Barchetta had a single fuel one way feed and the fuel filter was inside the fuel tank and part of the fuel pump system.

 

[Lima]

Bugger :bang:

oh well... whichever B owner I see first down the pub when I get back can have a free in line fuel filter from me.

Doc... can you comment on the pics attached please?

 

[docorangepeel]

Well it's not good thats for sure. I will have to check my Barchetta paperwork to find out more but it's some kind of return pipe. Is yours a pre 99 Barchetta? Simply way to check what fuel system you have is look at the fuel rail in the engine bay, if you have two black pipes coming off the left side it's the older return system. It could be the seal on the return pipe has gone.

FYI you also have rust in the inner wheel arch inside the tank area that will need looking at m8 before it gets out of hand.

 

[Lima]

mine is a 2000 (registered october, and the scribblings on some parts I've just exposed say june 00, so it's definitely a naughties car). The fuel lines under the bonnet are blue... Fiat kindly matched them to the bodywork, no?

 

[docorangepeel]

So you have the new style fuel system that has no engine bay return. I always thought the fuel return was built into the tank pump system on the newer systems. I will let you know what I find later after I have looked it up.

 

[afroking]

I have had the exact same problems regarding the petrol smell, however when I removed the bulkhead panel there were no signs or smells of leaking fuel. Strange I thought, but when I smelt the fuel cap it became apparent where the problem was; a perished rubber in the fuel cap.

 

[afroking]

Bugger :bang:

oh well... whichever B owner I see first down the pub when I get back can have a free in line fuel filter from me.

Doc... can you comment on the pics attached please?

That pipe leads to the segregator which is in the nearside rear wing. The segregator had 3 pipes leading to it. I have no idea what its for, I can only assume its some kind of vapor trap.

 

[docorangepeel]

Sorry never got a chance to look it up last night. Well it looks like you will need a new rubber seal for it what ever it is.

 

[Lima]

Guys - thanks for your help on this particular thread - much appreciated

 

[Lima]

How's Your Driving?

As a treat, here's a link to a little YouTube animation.

It sums up driving in Portugal perfectly!.. and Spain... and Italy...



Enjoy

 

[Lima]

The mystery piece is the fuel return valve.

Item at fault (unless the problem returns) was the seal for the above item.

Total cost - €5
Total time - 2hrs car time, 5 hours FIAT parts department (I am not kidding)
Total hair loss - severe.

 

[Alan.D]

You OK after your ordeal baldy? BTW you cant have a wig in a convertable.