General Fuel consumption

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General Fuel consumption

Enzo

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Hello all[8D]...I'd like to know what's your Panda's fuel consumption, as I think my one's drinking too much B)!Running on a "mixed" route, including motorway and traffic jams, it doesn't go over 12-13km/l, that means about 34mpg...not a great result I think(if my maths are correct, 1kml=2,8mpg)!At the road test the emissions resulted very low, so I guess the lambda sensor's working fine, any ideas on what should be checked???


Passion has neither brands nor models!

La passione non ha nè marche nè modelli!
(Quite happy dark met. blue Panda driver!)
 

John H

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Dragging brakes.

poor traffic flow,

heavy feet.

Popped vacuum advance (Yes, I know you replaced it recently..)


I think your maths is about right (but I get mine wrong sometimes:()
 

toecutter

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merthyr turdfull, United Kingdom.
35MPG could be right, but I have heard of up to 60MPG.
Reduce all drag;
1) blow tires to highest recommended pressure, or a bit more- but this will cause tires to wear in the middle more quickly, and reduce braking ability.
2) Check wheel bearing for wear and any drag.
3) Check for dragging brake shoes
Efficient engine:
1) clean air filter
2) new plugs and leads for a good burn in the cylinders
3) Can timing and mixture be played with? Lean ot mix
Lose weight (don't carry loads of stuff you don't need)-

Justin
 
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Enzo

Enzo

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I forgot to add that at the road test the dyno checks the rolling resistance before doing the brake test, and all the wheels gave a right result( front ones around the 50Nm and rear 25-30Nm),so I don't think the problem's dragging;).But I'm suspicious, so I often check after a trip if the wheels are hot because of seized calipers/shoes, but they seem fine...the vacuum unit's working properly and the timing's correct...distributor cap's already replaced...spark plugs are the Beru with 4 electrodes[8D] (promise better ignition[:0])...the leads are the original ones, maybe they affect the consumption so badly?I don't want to reach the claimed 20km/l, but I noticed our Fusion 1.6 16v is drinking less on the same routesB)[:(!]!!


Passion has neither brands nor models!

La passione non ha nè marche nè modelli!
(Quite happy dark met. blue Panda driver!)
 

John H

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ISTR your Panda has ECU and injection.

Has the consumption recently got worse?

If so, you may have a failed lambda sensor.
If it failed "short circuit" the ECU will give a rich mixture:
low is lean.
It may even be clever enough to set a default "somewhere near" value as it will expect switching from the sensor when warmed up:
the proverbial "limp home" mode, which in other cars gives you a warning light. I don't think my (injected) Panda has got one though...
 

John H

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Probably 50 to 55mph.


ISTR there was a fashion for producing good (spot speed) economy figures at 55mph when it was one of the measured/quoted speeds.

Probably responsible for some of the "flat spot" nonsense too.
 
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Enzo

Enzo

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It didn't get worse lately...I noticed an improvement replacing the (failed) vacuum unit, even if with the above results[^].BTW I think the high idle speed affects negatively the consumption during traffic jams (900rpm on my car)...and also exceeding 110-120kmh is not a good behaviour:D!
Just to be more precise the last 3 days I covered 240km with 18lt, which means a figure of something less than 40mpg...not bad but not too far from more modern and powerful engines[}:)].


Passion has neither brands nor models!

La passione non ha nè marche nè modelli!
(Quite happy dark met. blue Panda driver!)
 

John H

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It's funny you should mention better economy from more modern and powerful engines..

I've had to drive an "03" plate "KA" today - due to circumstances beyond my control - and on my usual route and driving I can see the gauge going down rapidly towards the point it was when I put a tenners worth in*.
I haven't made any objective measurements, but the Panda will do this route several times over on that ammount, and have some "learner driving" thrown in for good measure.

Perhaps I just drive the "KA" harder:I


Regards

John H

* will continue the experiment, until SWMBOs car is repaired, maybe do some measurements too.
 

PandaManPaul

Owner of Gemma the Panda
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Dec 9, 2002
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Worcs.
Is the Ka still using the old 1.3 from when the world was in black and white and the Internet was just fields?

IIRC, the 1.3 is a 1297cc from way back when that has been modernised a bit with an ECU and modern malarkey.

beaker.gif
 

John H

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AFAIK there is a choice of two engines in a KA - depending on its age:

the older ones are the 1.3 "Endura" pushrod lump which is descended from the old "Kent" pushrod engine.

the newest ones are 1.25 chain cam "Zetec"/Yamaha, pretty much state of the art.

By the way it goes I think it is the Zetec.

I suppose I could really do with somebody who could say - exhaust down the back is Zetec... if you know what I mean:D

Update:
Zetec engine from Feb 03, so the 03 plate should be that one.
In round figures the Panda is 80% of the weight with 65% of the power.
My urban drive to work involves about 120 gearchanges in 10 miles.
Can be more changes when congested.

I'm sure on an open road the KA would use far less fuel, due to good aerodynamics and high gearing and efficient engine...
but in the cut and thrust of urban stop-start driving it's thirstier (the way I do it:D)
 

PandaManPaul

Owner of Gemma the Panda
Joined
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Worcs.
Thanks for clearing up the Ka engine date thingy :)

I knew the original models had the pushrod engine, but it seemed about time it was given something a bit more modern.

But I can't talk. The 903cc Panda unit is a pushrod engine derived from the '50s [8)] Still love the simplicity of it, without the electronic malarkey :)

beaker.gif
 

Martiny10

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The 999CC FIRE Unit is practically brand new, developed in the 1980's.

The only true revolution in the past 80 years was the w**kel engine but that never caught on, except at Mazda.

Regards,

Martin

Fix It Again Tony!
 

toecutter

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merthyr turdfull, United Kingdom.
A post near the beggining of this thread said that the idle was high. Is the idle set high because it would stall- a cover for choke really. Wonder if it could be like my car- faulty thermostat means it never warms up, which means it has to have a touch of choke or it will stall at the lights- which means that with just a little choke, it uses a lot more petrol. I suppose i could turn up the idle, and reduce the choke- and then I might be in the same position as the original post I spoke of. Got it?
Justin
 

John H

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<s>Unless</s> I've lost the plot totally... Enzos Panda is <s>MPI</s> SPI.

Tick-over speed should be managed by the ECU using the stepper motor on the butterfly valve.

AIUI, ECU controlled tick-over speed is a function of
engine temp
inlet air temp

When these are low the speed is up a bit.

When everything is warm, a figure around the 850 mark is about right.
I can't remember the exact specification, but I bet Enzo can find it in the original Italian somewhere.
 
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Enzo

Enzo

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Mine is a Spi model...I don't think there exists a 1.0fire with Mpi equipment, am I wrong[:0][?]The figure for the idle speed is correct, 850 +/-50rpm and my engine uses to stay on the higher limit:(...maybe this affects the consumption during city driving.BTW I'm pretty sure the New Panda or a Punto with the 1.2Mpi engine drink less fuel than my Panda in the same routes, despite of the higher power and weightB)!


Passion has neither brands nor models!

La passione non ha nè marche nè modelli!
(Quite happy dark met. blue Panda driver!)
 
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Enzo

Enzo

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Any advices about how to clean the stepper motor?I know it's a "recommended" operation when it doesn't work properly and the idle remains too high.


Passion has neither brands nor models!

La passione non ha nè marche nè modelli!
(Quite happy dark met. blue Panda driver!)
 

John H

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AFAIK the stepper motor advice is to leave it alone as the position/settings are supposed to be factory set.
(Although I have read of people who have taken it to bits, and got it back together and working again.)

I suppose if your tick-over is faster than specification, and it can't reduce - I guess you have a choice of possible causes:

air leak through worn butterfly spindle.

dirty edge on the butterfly causing it to stick partially open.

stepper motor problem.


Options are likely to be

live with it - it's a very expensive item (although one or two new ones went on Ebay for about 26 UKP a few weeks ago).

clean the butterfly edge, and throttle body inner.

attempt to reposition/reset the stepper motor position.


If your tick over speed is within specification I'd be inclined to leave it alone, and accept that a new MPI engined car is a bit more efficient than a 10+ year old SPI Panda.


YMMV


John H
 
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Enzo

Enzo

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Some time ago I posted the URL of a site about electronic engine management of different manufacturers, and there was described how to clean the contacts of the stepper motor using a lamp...the current which circulates helps to burn the dust and other deposits that keep it from working properly;)!One time I needed to hit gently with a screwdriver the motor because the idle remained too fast, but just one time... another question could involve the HT cables:even if the cap and rotor and plugs are new, my car doesn't start very well when cold and wetB), just 2-3 seconds of "trembling" but I don't like it[:(!];is it possible to solve this problem and improve the consumption with new cables?


Passion has neither brands nor models!

La passione non ha nè marche nè modelli!
(Quite happy dark met. blue Panda driver!)
 

John H

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ISTR the "contacts" were for "throttle closed".
If the ECU doesn't know that the throttle is closed.. I suppose tickover could well be faster than ideal.

If the spluttering on cold start is only when wet/damp it may well be the plug leads.
If the spark isn't 100% how can the economy be at its best??
 
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