Fiat's rustproofing on new cars ?

[CompoSimmonite]

For the first time in our lives we can afford to buy a decent car due to an inheritance.
I've been having a massive mental debate with myself what to buy and am drifting towards a Panda around a year old or maybe a Grande Punto a bit older.

The intention is to keep the car for a long time so I wonder what Fiat do for rustproofing on their products when new ? Is there any additional protection sprayed inside cavities or do they rely on just the paint ?
I don't mind Dinitroling if there is nothing already applied and it doesn't invalidate any guarantee.

Thanks.

Paul H.

 

[T14086]

panels are galvanised.......when did you honestly last see a rusty Fiat? (its a old joke that isn't relevent anymore & hasn't been for many years)

 

[CompoSimmonite]

I'll be honest I admit I haven't seen a rusty Fiat - or any other modern car for ages.

My previous Fiats fell part when quite young due to rust so I've avoided them for many years and have enjoyed Germans & Swedish quality where even at 10 years old they were still solid.
Early retirement means having to be careful with the pennies and "downsizing" to a much smaller car for everyday use.
I've still got Microcar RJ125, Morris Minor, Austin A35, Herald convertible and SII Land Rover though (as well as 3 bikes)

Paul H

 

[beau]

when did you honestly last see a rusty Fiat? (its a old joke that isn't relevent anymore & hasn't been for many years)

about 5 mins ago tbh.

but seriously fiat have got better, but there floor pans are still made of cheese, a 8 year old punto should not need welding but it does, and **** knows what fiat done with the mk2 punto roof's, obviously forgot to galvanise them.

 

[fingers99]

The Cinqs are begining to show rust, as are a few earlier Seis, but nothing like as bad as the 3 Series BMWs of the same era (which really do make Alfas look good).

Check with a dealer -- I'm pretty sure that annual inspection (and cavity waxing) is part of the initial guarantee process.

You might take a peek at a 500, too: likely to hold its value better than a GP or Panda.

 

[StevenRB45]

panels are galvanised.......when did you honestly last see a rusty Fiat? (its a old joke that isn't relevent anymore & hasn't been for many years)

As Beau said they seriously dropped the ball on the MK2: The Death of ADZ182's HGT at 9 years due to chronic rust in the floorpan and chassis.

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto/206883-rust-rust-rust.html

 

[CompoSimmonite]

You might take a peek at a 500, too: likely to hold its value better than a GP or Panda.

Had a look at the 500 and nice but out of my price range.
I'm disabled with left leg problems (don't get Mobility Allowance before anyone asks ) so need an auto version. Dealer says auto 500 will be like hens hind teeth to find secondhand and scrappage has messed up the new market for those who don't want to put a car in PX (I intend keeping the current old Mondeo as a "banger"/ towcar whilst my Land Rover is being rebuilt on a brand new chassis). Last year I enquired about several cheap new cars with no PX, and paying cash, and found all sorts of discounts / incentives. Now there is nothing
The main use for the car will be as a "run around" and the intenton will be to keep until it falls apart so I'm more interested in long term lasting of the bodyshell than depreciation. My wife will be the main user and despite also being early retired she clocks up quite high milages. Her previous car was her late fathers nearly new Nissan that did 16mpg in traffic so it was quickly sold and we've been sharing the Mondeo. I'm happy with my "fleet" of old cars for occasional fun so this time we are going to be sensible and get a practical car hence looking at the Panda.

Paul H

 

[J333EVO]

I'll be honest I admit I haven't seen a rusty Fiat - or any other modern car for ages.

My previous Fiats fell part when quite young due to rust so I've avoided them for many years and have enjoyed Germans & Swedish quality where even at 10 years old they were still solid.

Paul H

I find the German cars at 10 years old part difficult to digest. My neighbours Mercedes C220 Kompressor 2001 plate has blistered front wheel arches and bottom of back passenger door is rusty. And my other neighbours Mercedes C200 Kompressor Coupe also a 2001 model has rear arch rust. Compared to our Seicento which is 2001 as well which has no rust whatsoever makes a mockery of there much more expensive original costs.

Mercedes went through terrible build quality issues from about 1996-2004, so much so that the AA recommend you take a micrometer to check thickness of paint when looking to buy one to see which sections have been repaired as repaired sections will have thicker paint than factory applied paint.

And then there's MK3 Golfs, especialy GTi models, don't remove the plastic outer sill covers as all you will find is rust, then theres the tailgates, just as bad.

Though all that said most if not all modenr cars as so well protected now 10-15 years should be easily achievable.

 

[CompoSimmonite]

I find the German cars at 10 years old part difficult to digest. My neighbours Mercedes C220 Kompressor 2001 plate has blistered front wheel arches and bottom of back passenger door is rusty. And my other neighbours Mercedes C200 Kompressor Coupe also a 2001 model has rear arch rust. Compared to our Seicento which is 2001 as well which has no rust whatsoever makes a mockery of there much more expensive original costs.

Mercedes went through terrible build quality issues from about 1996-2004, so much so that the AA recommend you take a micrometer to check thickness of paint when looking to buy one to see which sections have been repaired as repaired sections will have thicker paint than factory applied paint.

And then there's MK3 Golfs, especialy GTi models, don't remove the plastic outer sill covers as all you will find is rust, then theres the tailgates, just as bad.

Though all that said most if not all modern cars as so well protected now 10-15 years should be easily achievable.

My cars have mostly been 8-10 + years old when I bought them (I've owned around 100 of various types ).
A Merc has never been on my shopping list (nor BMW) as I like VW / Audi products (owned 2 x Beetles, Fastback, 2 x MKII Passat, MKIII Passat, Audi 100 Avante, MKII Polo, MKII Golf and 2 x MKI Golf). Other than the aircooled models rust has never been a problem nor welding needed at any time despite the cars being quite old when they I got rid of them. My Volvo's (P1800, 1800S, Amazon, 340, 240 & 740) have been mixed with 240 being wonderful and 740 horrible (Belgian made) quality but again rust not a problem with the later cars.
Things have changed though. As you say VW Golf MKIV have a poorish reputation as do Polo's (check out Honest Johns reviews ) and Volvo's tank type quality seems to have deteriated where the current range, and going back the last 10 years, don't appeal to me either.

People have different experiences of identical cars. I have the kind of luck to get the one that will be bad and am therefore quite cycnical about manufacturers rustproofing and will treat any car we get as a "belt and braces" approach.
I've tried searching to any articles on Fiats rustproofing but cann't find anything. No point in asking the dealer as all you get is sales type talk so think I will contact Fiat themselves for a definative answer - including if I Dinatrol will it affact any warrantee.
I'll let people know any reply idc

Paul H

BTW if you want to see poor quality / rot look at Land Rover products. My 2 Range Rovers and Discovery crumbled away before my eyes hence deciding to go back to the current old leaf sprung '68 SII and rebuilding on a new galv chassis.

 

[CompoSimmonite]

My email to Fiat -


Re. Fiat rustproofing.
For the first time in our lives my wife and I are in the position to be able to afford a decent car. It's yet to be decided if to opt for new or maybe a year old used. Automatic gearbox Panda or Grande Punto are what we are currently considering.
I've been searching for details about what treatment Fiat use to rustproof the current range without success.
(a) Do you have a link to a site etc where Fiat's current rust prevention practices are outlined ?
(b) I assume the main "defence" is proper application of paint finish (by dipping ?) to vunerable areas like the underside and cavities but is there any additional wax or whatever applied ?
(c) What is the companies warrantee period on rust and what conditions are required. For example we had a Metro that Austin required yearly inspection by main agent.
(d) If additional cavity protection is applied (Dinitrol) would it invalidate any such warrantee?
I should add in the past we've had two Fiats and a Lancia that fell apart due to severe rot when quite young hence my apprehension about buying Italian again and I'm hoping your reply will help reassure me Fiat have massively improved over the years.
Thanks.
Paul.

I'm looking forward to the reply.

Paul H

 

[T14086]

As Beau said they seriously dropped the ball on the MK2: The Death of ADZ182's HGT at 9 years due to chronic rust in the floorpan and chassis.

nothing wrong with mine

 

[beau]

nothing wrong with mine

well the 2 mk2's in my family, one being 1999 required welding to rear floor pan, and my old one, 2000 had a hole in the roof, bottoms of doors going & inner sills were starting to go.

my mk1, 1997 punto has not a spot of rust anywhere.

 

[T14086]

I have seen a few with spots of rust at top of windscreen, as for floorpans I wonder how many suffered from interior leaks from doors/bulkhead in their past?

 

[sledge]

I think you will find any of todays Fiat products have a comperable tolerance towards rust as any other product from a volume manufacturer. Makers have adopted a common goal and have developed identical processes and procedures in an attempt to hold off the tin worm. Advances in material Engineering mean that unlike in times gone by steel is only used where plastics and composites cant be. Makers work hard to improve their image and the take it or leave it attitude towards their products has long since gone owing to the increase in competition. QA is big these days and the steel used by all makers is the same grade and comes from the same sources, not from any dodgy Russian mills.

Based on the fact a headlamp rusted out off my Dads then 18 month old Marina and before that his 3 yr old Escort failed it first MOT due to rusty sills, from what I can remember, Italian cars of the 70s rusted no worse than anything that came out of Longbridge/Speke/Dagenham at the same time

I dont see serious corrosion as an issue with any modern Fiat but can I suggest that if you are going to buy a 2-3 yr old GP you buy a watertight 3rd party warranty rather than spend money on additional rustproofing.........A scan through the GP section will identify some of the more common faults and the costs involved, including the £800 steering motor replacement job that all waranty-less owners are living in fear of

 

[pasotibbs]

I think you will find any of todays Fiat products have a comperable tolerance towards rust as any other product from a volume manufacturer. Makers have adopted a common goal and have developed identical processes and procedures in an attempt to hold off the tin worm. Advances in material Engineering mean that unlike in times gone by steel is only used where plastics and composites cant be. Makers work hard to improve their image and the take it or leave it attitude towards their products has long since gone owing to the increase in competition. QA is big these days and the steel used by all makers is the same grade and comes from the same sources, not from any dodgy Russian mills.

Based on the fact a headlamp rusted out off my Dads then 18 month old Marina and before that his 3 yr old Escort failed it first MOT due to rusty sills, from what I can remember, Italian cars of the 70s rusted no worse than anything that came out of Longbridge/Speke/Dagenham at the same time

I dont see serious corrosion as an issue with any modern Fiat but can I suggest that if you are going to buy a 2-3 yr old GP you buy a watertight 3rd party warranty rather than spend money on additional rustproofing.........A scan through the GP section will identify some of the more common faults and the costs involved, including the £800 steering motor replacement job that all waranty-less owners are living in fear of

Remember the Austin 1800?
The paint shop was across the road from the main assembly plant and the bare steel shells went through a covered bridge between the two buildings,except for the 1800 that was too wide to fit so they were loaded onto trucks and driven through the streets totally uncovered!!

Had two 97 Cinqs neither ever failed an MOT on corrosion but one did have a section of the inner rear wheelarch fall out when I jet washed it (fixed with glassfibre)

 

[CompoSimmonite]

Had a "nothing answered" reply from Fiat.

Basically they said ask the dealer.

Not impressed seeing I could be paying such a large amount of money for a new car and they cann't be bothered to write a proper reply

Went to the local main dealer and similar attitiude when I was enquiring about what sort of deal they could do me on a new Panda auto.

Why is it car salemen are more slimey than a squashed slug ?

I think I'll buy used based on What Cars depreciation table -

http://www.whatcar.com/car-deprecia...akeId=9434&modelVersionId=9926&editionId=9934

Paul H

http://www.whatcar.com/car-deprecia...akeId=9434&modelVersionId=9926&editionId=9934

 

[Ulpian]

I don't understand why you don't take notice of what people have said here. In the late 80s and 90s road tests were commenting on the new-found quality of Fiat's rustproofing and galvanizing. The company also uses, as has been said, the same non-Russian steel as the rest of the industry, including the very high strength steels necessary for modern crash requirements. In fact Fiats are better than Fords at not rusting, and Mercedes has recently had horrendous problems with rust.

Salesmen usually know less than the posters here about Fiats; probably they were selling Vauxhalls or Nissans last week and didn't know much more than how to do the finance on them either. (not all salesmen )

If you look at the sales brochures they always used to state the percentage of galvanized metal on the cars, but possibly they don't even bother now, because it isn't an issue. And anyway, there's a good guarantee against corrosion - can't remember how long these days - so you are protected.

The odd car may rust in the odd spot due to some glitch somewhere, but look around, Fiats just don't rust now. How many Mark1 Puntos are there about compared to other similar cars of the same age? More, that's how many.

 

[HWJTD]

I have a stone chip through to the metal to the side of the windscreen on the Stilo.

It hasn't rusted since I bought it months and months ago! (And I live in Cumbria)

 

[StevenRB45]

Touch it up....even galvanising has limits especially if its left as bare metal.

 

[Cian]

I find the German cars at 10 years old part difficult to digest. My neighbours Mercedes C220 Kompressor 2001 plate has blistered front wheel arches and bottom of back passenger door is rusty. And my other neighbours Mercedes C200 Kompressor Coupe also a 2001 model has rear arch rust. Compared to our Seicento which is 2001 as well which has no rust whatsoever makes a mockery of there much more expensive original costs.

Mercedes went through terrible build quality issues from about 1996-2004, so much so that the AA recommend you take a micrometer to check thickness of paint when looking to buy one to see which sections have been repaired as repaired sections will have thicker paint than factory applied paint.

The early 2000s C-Class is renowned for being a rust bucket, I thought? Ditto the pre-Fiat Ford Ka; was told by the indie mechanic we use for the out of warranty cars in work that those were the only two cars that had chronic rust issues anymore.

My dad has a '01 Mk2 Punto back home on an offshore island as the runaround car for up there - it often spends months sitting outside not being used much, near the sea, exposed to salt laden air. Its not rusted at all visible. It doesn't need an NCT due to being on an offshore island (also has an 88 euro tax rate; and we just use the 'driving other cars' on our fully comp policies to drive it = cheap motoring for trips home!) so we don't know what kind of condition the underframe, floorpan, etc, are in but it seems absolutely fine still.