Technical Fiat Uno 1.0 FIRE not starting

[davidjpb92]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to deal with some issues that our 1994 Fiat Uno 1.0 Fire is having

Since a while back it's been having starting to have some issues

First it had to do with not holding the idle after starting (I had to keep on holding the gas until it finally managed to have a steady idle and managed to stay on)

Then last year after I went to have the yearly MOT I had to turn it off because it was low on radiator fluid and then I had to ask someone to jump start it

It then was on the garage and barely touched since last year (and actually paid so much attention that a tire was empty, and it cracked and now we have to replace it)

A few days ago I was checking it to get it ready for this year's MOT, and although it had the same issue about the idle, I managed to turn it on and off a few times (also trying to get some readings on battery health, and starting power and etc)

Yesterday I was trying to start it to go get the tire situation fixed, and it didn't start by himself, neither when trying to jump start it

I connected the battery to a charged last night (although that shouldn't have been a problem since he didn't even jumpstart), and tried again and I still have the same problem

I'm trying to actually figure out the problem at home instead of taking him to a mechanic, since my dad's starting with that conversation about "It's giving so much trouble, I'm about to send it to the junkyard", and I was actually trying to stop it from happening.

A neighbor tried to test out using brake cleaner yesterday when we were trying to start the car and we weren't very lucky either

I looked at all the fuses, both inside the car and on the engine bay, and they seem to be ok

Any tips on things to try?

 

[varesecrazy]

Can you hear the fuel pump whirr?

DO check the key is being read, so not immobilised (if relevant..)

 

[davidjpb92]

Can you hear the fuel pump whirr?

DO check the key is being read, so not immobilised (if relevant..)

I've removed the exit end of the fuel filter, and fuel was passing through it, so I guess the fuel pump is working, otherwise nothing would reach the filter

 

[bugsymike]

I've removed the exit end of the fuel filter, and fuel was passing through it, so I guess the fuel pump is working, otherwise nothing would reach the filter

As @varesecrazy mentions re immobiliser, ideally the immobiliser light should come on with ignition and then go out prior to starting so if not engine will not run.
Do you have a spare key to see if it will run with that?
You say fuel is coming out of the filter, is it getting to the spark plugs, if engine isn't firing but fuel is getting there , then plugs should be wet with fuel.
While plugs out check for a spark at the plugs when turning engine over on the key.
If vehicle has a rev counter, does it react when trying to start, if not the crank sensor can be a fault.
Another major point , is at the beginning you mentioned low on radiator fluid, if engine overheated badly then head gasket could have gone, also if really damaged it can affect engine compressions, although with brake cleaner/easystart spray I would have expected some kind of reaction.
I assume engine is not turning over very easy as in cam belt failure?
Also when spark plugs out I would give engine a compression test to see if I was wasting my time or not.

 

[JAMLAX]

Could it be a badly corroded (badly rusted) earth cable?
Some years ago I had a perplexing issue with a Fiat Doblo. It wouldn't start one damp morning. My mechanic couldn't figure out the problem until he examined and tested the starter motor. The starter motor had not failed but an earth cable attached to it had corroded so badly that the usual electrical circuit just stopped working.

P.S. After re-reading the issues described and the suggestions made I must admit the obvious...I'm out of my depth!

 

[davidjpb92]

As @varesecrazy mentions re immobiliser, ideally the immobiliser light should come on with ignition and then go out prior to starting so if not engine will not run.
Do you have a spare key to see if it will run with that?
You say fuel is coming out of the filter, is it getting to the spark plugs, if engine isn't firing but fuel is getting there , then plugs should be wet with fuel.
While plugs out check for a spark at the plugs when turning engine over on the key.
If vehicle has a rev counter, does it react when trying to start, if not the crank sensor can be a fault.
Another major point , is at the beginning you mentioned low on radiator fluid, if engine overheated badly then head gasket could have gone, also if really damaged it can affect engine compressions, although with brake cleaner/easystart spray I would have expected some kind of reaction.
I assume engine is not turning over very easy as in cam belt failure?
Also when spark plugs out I would give engine a compression test to see if I was wasting my time or not.

If by immobilizer you mean like an alarm or something, it doesn't, it only has normal keys

On the panel it only has the parking brake, battery and oil lights

I've removed 3 of the sparkplugs (number 2 requires a specific length of extension for my ratchet wrench and I'm still trying to find one (found the right length, but wrong size, so it requires an adapter and it screws with the length again )

But going by a neighbor's opinion they seem to still be ok, so they'll eventually go back it

We tested one of them while it was out and it seems like it gave good spark, so that seems to be out of the question too

When I turned the engine on the other day I actually let it run for a while and the temperatures were normal (sure I didn't actually drive it, but I guess it would still go way up if it was messed up, right?)

I think I'll keep the rest of the SPs out, since I don't have a Dyno metric wrench and I need to do it by touch, so I'd rather not do it very often

For the compression test, I guess I need to buy some gear from the tool shop, right?

Sorry about all the questions, but my automotive repair knowledge is almost 0, and the few things I know hot to do is actually on my Peugeot 206 and not on this one

 

[davidjpb92]

Could it be a badly corroded (badly rusted) earth cable?
Some years ago I had a perplexing issue with a Fiat Doblo. It wouldn't start one damp morning. My mechanic couldn't figure out the problem until he examined and tested the starter motor. The starter motor had not failed but an earth cable attached to it had corroded so badly that the usual electrical circuit just stopped working.

I'll see if I can find anything resembling that tomorrow, since a bunch of other things might

 

[bugsymike]

As you say, looking at this manual there is no mention of immobiliser, so all you can do is carry on checking the basics yourself.
If your neighbour or someone more familiar with car electrics is available they may be able to check the details in the photos below.
My instincts are that it is possible a mechanical issue due to previous overheating/loss of coolant as mentioned at the beginning, so bearing in mind you say you have fuel and a spark, compression would be something to check for.

 

[davidjpb92]

As you say, looking at this manual there is no mention of immobiliser, so all you can do is carry on checking the basics yourself.
If your neighbour or someone more familiar with car electrics is available they may be able to check the details in the photos below.
My instincts are that it is possible a mechanical issue due to previous overheating/loss of coolant as mentioned at the beginning, so bearing in mind you say you have fuel and a spark, compression would be something to check for.

I actually have 2 neighbors, but one of them I basically just met him 2 days ago (the one that helped with the brake cleaner, not the one that mentioned the sparkplugs), so I was trying to test a few more things during the next week before bothering him

I'm now trying to see if I can find a compression tester somewhere that won't break my bank

And I just got a washer missing in the middle of the engine bay...

Love the fact that I gotta search every nook and cranny to find it, or just say **** it and risk it going to any place that's gonna just destroy the engine the next time I try to start the car

 

[bugsymike]

I actually have 2 neighbors, but one of them I basically just met him 2 days ago (the one that helped with the brake cleaner, not the one that mentioned the sparkplugs), so I was trying to test a few more things during the next week before bothering him

I'm now trying to see if I can find a compression tester somewhere that won't break my bank

And I just got a washer missing in the middle of the engine bay...

Love the fact that I gotta search every nook and cranny to find it, or just say **** it and risk it going to any place that's gonna just destroy the engine the next time I try to start the car

Always wise to locate any missing bits to prevent future damage.
Is engine holding coolant?
What I mean is after you mentioned at the start of the post "Then last year after I went to have the yearly MOT I had to turn it off because it was low on radiator fluid"
If it is still losing water, then not a good sign.

 

[davidjpb92]

Always wise to locate any missing bits to prevent future damage.
Is engine holding coolant?
What I mean is after you mentioned at the start of the post "Then last year after I went to have the yearly MOT I had to turn it off because it was low on radiator fluid"
If it is still losing water, then not a good sign.

The other day when I started him, even though the temperatures seemed to be ok, i think it lost some water after I turned it off (I looked at the floor a few times when he was running, and then after turning him off I saw a bunch of water on the floor)

I topped the water again after turning him off and letting him cool off, and then the next time I started him I had the radiator reservoir cover off to see if he would lose any water or not and it even though it overflowed a little it seemed to be holding a good amount of water after it

By water I mean distilled water, not the tap one

 

[bugsymike]

The other day when I started him, even though the temperatures seemed to be ok, i think it lost some water after I turned it off (I looked at the floor a few times when he was running, and then after turning him off I saw a bunch of water on the floor)

I topped the water again after turning him off and letting him cool off, and then the next time I started him I had the radiator reservoir cover off to see if he would lose any water or not and it even though it overflowed a little it seemed to be holding a good amount of water after it

By water I mean distilled water, not the tap one

Any loss of engine coolant from a "sealed system" is a sign of concern.
If bad a compression test may show it up, often as low readings between to joining cylinder.
Sometimes it can be seen as bubbles with the lid off the coolant reservoir and if safe to do so, smelling the bubbles may smell like car exhaust/combustion gases which is another sign.
There are other tests, but they may be beyond your experience level, no disrespect intended.

 

[davidjpb92]

Any loss of engine coolant from a "sealed system" is a sign of concern.
If bad a compression test may show it up, often as low readings between to joining cylinder.
Sometimes it can be seen as bubbles with the lid off the coolant reservoir and if safe to do so, smelling the bubbles may smell like car exhaust/combustion gases which is another sign.
There are other tests, but they may be beyond your experience level, no disrespect intended.

None taken

I'm actually starting to have to decide before dumping more € in tools I might never use again, and end up making the car even worse than it is and make the mechanic bill higher

Or just give up and call a tow truck to the mechanic before I mess up even more

I mean if a bunch of different mechanics didn't make it run at 100% what miracle am I expecting

 

[bugsymike]

None taken

I'm actually starting to have to decide before dumping more € in tools I might never use again, and end up making the car even worse than it is and make the mechanic bill higher

Or just give up and call a tow truck to the mechanic before I mess up even more

I mean if a bunch of different mechanics didn't make it run at 100% what miracle am I expecting

Maybe Dad was right at the beginning, we are sometimes.
Still if not rusty and you can keep it some where for free, it will probably be worth some money in a few years time, even as a none runner.

 

[davidjpb92]

Maybe Dad was right at the beginning, we are sometimes.
Still if not rusty and you can keep it some where for free, it will probably be worth some money in a few years time, even as a none runner.

The garage where he's at could be useful for me to put my car in it, but let's not go there...

And the thing that makes be as stubborn as I am RN with him is that if it were to run, it would be the most useful car here at home (my cat has a 86 Bedford pickup which isn't exactly known as the most confortable vehicle ever and only seats 2), and I got a 3 door Peugeot 206, which we could use if we need to run some errands for the 3 of us, but it isn't exactly easy for my dad to enter and exit the rear seats)

But I think I'll at least order the compression tester, seems like I can get one for like 25€ or something (sure it's from eBay and probably from a shady Chinese manufacturer, but it's cheaper than the dinamometric wrench kits I've found)