Technical Fiat stilo 1.9 jtd can start only with spay

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Technical Fiat stilo 1.9 jtd can start only with spay

stilo192

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Hello all, this is my first post in the forum.

I own a Fiat stilo 1.9 jtd 2003.
First, the stilo lost power and it took too hard to accelerate. After I drove about 100km unrespectly it cut off while the engine was ON in the idle.
After that the car want start.At the ecu scan it does not show any new error.

I tried start spray in the air intake and the engine could start but is dies imediately.
In the second attempt with the start spray the engine ONLY could stay running above 2000 rmp, if i lower the rmp the engine dies directly.

Can anyone help me please if had any same experience?

Thanks in advance
 
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stilo192

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Sounds like crank sensor very common problem, easy job, cheap to buy.
Hi Cris, thanks for your reply.

I googled by photo for the crank sensor and that sensor was changed one year ago. At that time the car did start without problem when the engine was cold but after some km when the engine becomes warm in middle temp in the meter it cut off and could not start if the engine cooled down.

Now as I described the engine won't start even when it is cold.

Do you think its the crank sensor too for this not to start?

Thank you :)
 

bugsymike

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If it won't idle that suggest seriously down on power, is there a misfire / lumpy uneven running? If so it could be internal. Any smoke or "chuffing noises"
 

bugsymike

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As it won't start at all, when you crank it over, does it sound even on all four cylinders when spinning the engine over or three good and one different which could be more serious. To confirm would need a compression test which would involve specialist tools etc.
 

cris1117

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For what it cost to change the crank sensor I would just try it, as I said it is a very common problem with the JTD.
They usually start playing up when the engine is hot but do deteriorate and just quit completely.
 

bugsymike

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I agree common fault crank sensor with many makes these days, but symptoms in my experience are when engine hot it dies completely, then as cooled down restarts on all cylinders as though nothing wrong, but always interested to learn something new
 
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stilo192

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Thank @cris1117 @bugsymike for your replay and your help .i really appreciate your opinions.

When the engine is powered on with the spray it push out kind of grey smoke and engine could stay running as long as i push the gas pedal to stay over 2000 rpm.
To say the truth i havent heard the cylinders noises.

Just update :
-when the car died for the first time it shown errors "water in fuel filter, abs,esp error,loose conection" but all this just one time.
-battery is good condition.
-check 5v in the fuel pressure rail sensor and and it was ok.

What would you suggest for next step to do in these case? I owned this fiat stilo since 2014 and like to continue and for some couples years
 
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stilo192

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Thank @cris1117 @bugsymike for your replay and your help .i really appreciate your opinions.

When the engine is powered on with the spray it push out kind of grey smoke and engine could stay running as long as i push the gas pedal to stay over 2000 rpm.
To say the truth i havent heard the cylinders noises.

Just update :
-when the car died for the first time it shown errors "water in fuel filter, abs,esp error,loose conection" but all this just one time.
-battery is good condition.
-check 5v in the fuel pressure rail sensor and and it was ok.

What would you suggest for next step to do in these case? I owned this fiat stilo since 2014 and like to continue and for some couples years
@cris1117 After this update do you still suggest to give a try to change the crank sensor?
Many thanks i advance
 

bugsymike

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@cris1117 After this update do you still suggest to give a try to change the crank sensor?
Many thanks i advance
As Cris117 says sensor is a cheap option to try, I was going by some of the things you said which made me think it could be more serious. At the end of the day we are not by the vehicle so it is hard to be 100%. Someone familiar with engines hearing it crank over would maybe give a guide as to whether it was as I suggested or not.
As a very rough guide to what I suggested re the engine compression or lack. With engine switched off and key out, safely jack one drive wheel off the ground, car in gear possibly try 3rd, using a socket on the hub nut and a long bar try and gentle use that to turn the engine over , you should feel the compression of the engine on each cylinder as the wheel turns and should feel equal resistance on all four cylinders. If you are not sure what I mean don't do it . It is just a guide that won't cost money.
 
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stilo192

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As Cris117 says sensor is a cheap option to try, I was going by some of the things you said which made me think it could be more serious. At the end of the day we are not by the vehicle so it is hard to be 100%. Someone familiar with engines hearing it crank over would maybe give a guide as to whether it was as I suggested or not.
As a very rough guide to what I suggested re the engine compression or lack. With engine switched off and key out, safely jack one drive wheel off the ground, car in gear possibly try 3rd, using a socket on the hub nut and a long bar try and gentle use that to turn the engine over , you should feel the compression of the engine on each cylinder as the wheel turns and should feel equal resistance on all four cylinders. If you are not sure what I mean don't do it . It is just a guide that won't cost money.
@bugsymike,
Many thanks for all your pleasant assisstance.I fully understood all your suggestions.I will make a try future day and come back with any feedback.Many thaks again👍
 

cris1117

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Multiple error codes are usually battery connection or earth problem, abs esp may well be blocked fuel filter when was the fuel filter last changed have you tried draining the water off of it.
Loose connection is usually crank sensor as I said this would be my first thing to try.
 
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stilo192

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Multiple error codes are usually battery connection or earth problem, abs esp may well be blocked fuel filter when was the fuel filter last changed have you tried draining the water off of it.
Loose connection is usually crank sensor as I said this would be my first thing to try.
Hi @cris1117 .yes i opened the bottom of fuel filter and save the diesel in a container.I let it for couples of minutes to rest and i did noticed water in it,maybe i had to let it more time.
I am going to start by firt low cost steps ,changing fuel filter and the crank sensor and make test as @bugsymike mentioned erlier.i will write feedback.Many thanks 👍
 

Ralf S.

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If the engine runs by itself without using a spray (except just to start it) then that suggests this is a fuel problem, not an "ignition" problem.

Your crank sensor is okay if the engine will run by itself (even if only above 2000rpm). If the crank sensor was no good, it would not run at all, unless you kept spraying it (using the spray as the fuel).

I would replace your fuel filter cannister for sure. They're supposed to be changed at every service (12,000m/20,000kms) although I ran one to 36,000m/60,000km without any problems... On the other hand, my car did a lot of miles every week, which probably helped keep water and gunk out of the fuel system.

I would look at the fuel delivery. It sounds like you're not getting enough fuel, even though you managed to detect 5v at the pressure sensor. The fuel pumps are fairly indestructible but if your sensor isn't working correctly then you might be getting low fuel pressure, if the car thinks there's plenty already. I don't know what happens if you disconnect the sensor - it could go into a limp setting... so it may be worth a try.

It could be worth checking that all the injectors are firing when you turn the engine over. Again, it will prove that the crank sensor is okay (or not) .. but I suspect they will all be working okay. The car would run if one or even two were dead.


Ralf S.
 

jackwhoo

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Check anti shudder valve in inlet tract not jammed shut.
Check for any other obstruction to air flow
 
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stilo192

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If the engine runs by itself without using a spray (except just to start it) then that suggests this is a fuel problem, not an "ignition" problem.

Your crank sensor is okay if the engine will run by itself (even if only above 2000rpm). If the crank sensor was no good, it would not run at all, unless you kept spraying it (using the spray as the fuel).

I would replace your fuel filter cannister for sure. They're supposed to be changed at every service (12,000m/20,000kms) although I ran one to 36,000m/60,000km without any problems... On the other hand, my car did a lot of miles every week, which probably helped keep water and gunk out of the fuel system.

I would look at the fuel delivery. It sounds like you're not getting enough fuel, even though you managed to detect 5v at the pressure sensor. The fuel pumps are fairly indestructible but if your sensor isn't working correctly then you might be getting low fuel pressure, if the car thinks there's plenty already. I don't know what happens if you disconnect the sensor - it could go into a limp setting... so it may be worth a try.

It could be worth checking that all the injectors are firing when you turn the engine over. Again, it will prove that the crank sensor is okay (or not) .. but I suspect they will all be working okay. The car would run if one or even two were dead.


Ralf S.
Hello Ralf,
Thank you for your reply, the fuel filter was changed today but not a positive result. When the fuel was poured out from the old filter the fuel was pretty clear and no water trace was found in it.
The engine behaves the same. It only starts with spray and can stay running only above 2000 rpm.
I disconnect the fuel pressure sensor as you suggested, and the engine cranks but does not start with the same amount of spray.
After I reconnect the fuel pressure sensor and the same situation: the engine starts only with spray and runs only above 2000 rpm.

Is there any idea you can suggest ? Thanks in advance
 
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stilo192

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Check anti shudder valve in inlet tract not jammed shut.
Check for any other obstruction to air flow
Hello jackwhoo,
Thank you for your reply , the valve can move slightly by hand in any position without any problem and from my point of view I checked the air filter its was not in wors condition but any how i removed while testing
 

bugsymike

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Sorry to hear you are still suffering, when you get it running at 2000rpm is it smooth then or lumpy and slow to rev. If so you might want to check as in my first advice, unpleasant though it may turn out to be.
 
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stilo192

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Sorry to hear you are still suffering, when you get it running at 2000rpm is it smooth then or lumpy and slow to rev. If so you might want to check as in my first advice, unpleasant though it may turn out to be.
Hello bugsymike,
With the spray it fires directly and and the rev seems fine regular above 2000 rmp.
If it falls down 2000 rpm it looks hard to rev and in couple of sec the engine dies.
Today i could not make the test you suggested as i spent some times with the fuel filter and the other tests.I will make a try on monday for what you suggested.
 

bugsymike

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Hello bugsymike,
With the spray it fires directly and and the rev seems fine regular above 2000 rmp.
If it falls down 2000 rpm it looks hard to rev and in couple of sec the engine dies.
Today i could not make the test you suggested as i spent some times with the fuel filter and the other tests.I will make a try on monday for what you suggested.
If it is smooth at higher revs, it can still be low compression, years ago I had a Ford V6 that I hammered down the motorway and the next day it wouldn't tickover, I had broken the compression rings on two cylinders. It turned out the engine had not been driven hard before and there was a wear ridge on the top of the cylinder bore where the pistons usually stopped before going back down, my higher revving made the pistons go a fraction higher causing the piston rings to touch the ridge. In those days I was able to borrow a "ridge cutter" to grind away the ridge. It was also possible to buy ridge dodger piston rings that had a step to miss the ridge. Nowadays the proper course would be a rebore and a set of new pistons.
You may be able to detect a weak compression the way I suggested. Another sign of low compression on a diesel is poor starting from cold accompanied with white smoke, although usually once running for a bit they tickover OK.
If you have tried everything else a proper compression test would eliminate that.
 
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