Technical Fiat Marea Weekend 1.6 auto estate AIR CON HELP PLS

[neilneil]

Hi I have a weekend 1.6 auto.

Air Con is down.

I had it gassed last year and it still didn't work, the garage tried to get me to have new compressor, laughed at the price more than I bought the car for.

Weather went bad, and hay hoe its now good again.

I have checked it today, the compressor is not kicking in, air con light is on, I'm guessing the gas may have gone, but to save money can I test the other parts first.

I have found the receiver dryer and the pressure switch on top, green connection with 6 pins. How do I test this to see if its working, I have watched you tube and understand the components and principles to test but I cant find half of them.

next

the compressor relay, I have found the box in front of the battery, what am I checking? it has a red and black relay on the left, one large square relay in the middle with an empty space below, then normal fuses in case to the right, and then a large cable connector?

There is no sign of a leak, from looking for old dye marks, they filled it with dye last year when charging.

I just want to check if the compressor is dead, if so I will open the windows.

Thanks for any help.
Will try upload pictures.

 

[neilneil]

Pics attached, hopefully this will help others cos I have been looking for hours now.

 

[neilneil]

When I moved the light to get to the pressure valve I may of unplugged this? a single cable that branchs off the cables to the light?

any ideas?

 

[neilneil]

Just double checked all the cables and power to the pressure sensor, and compressor, all are ok.

Power is going to the compressor and it engages when I bridge the Pressure Sensor.

There is some gas in there so I cant do a vacuum pressure test.

So its prob low on gas, im guessing the only way to test the compressor is by connecting a GAS MANIFOLD GAUGE. and turning it on and off and seeing if its in the ranges of:


1. Compressor not activate: low side 5-6bar, high side 5-6 bar

2. Compressor activate & RPM1500: low side 1.5-3.0 bar, high side 11-16bar.

I haven't checked any internal bit yet, do I need to?

 

[Neverth]

There is the defronst sensor on the evaporator, but it should be fine as compressor engages when pressureswitch engages.
So low on gas/leak on system would be my guess.
Leak on evaporator would require diassembling the whole dash.

It could be bad pressureswitch...but you need gauges to see if the pressure is ok or not.

The connector might be for front fogs?

 

[neilneil]

Thanks for the reply.

Took it to the garage today, they only do charging and no repairs.

There was gas in, he drained and renewed gas, no leaks seen.

The gauges were reading when the engine and air con on was:

Low side - 6 PSI
High Side 5 PSI

The compressor did run, but still hot air from the vents.


Figures didn't change much, he said one was meant to rise and the other fall

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi,
maybe post in Bravo section with AIRCON early in the subject line,
otherwise people WON'T see it..!!,

good luck,
Charlie

 

[neilneil]

Thanks I have posted it there too, hope someone can help the hot weather will be gone before we know it.

 

[neilneil]

Well its hot again, turned it on compressor kicks in but no cold, I have tried every where to buy a set of manifold gauges, guess I will have to order a set online.

the pressure didn't change much when the compressor kicked in.

So what have I got to do next

Im guessing its either the pressure switch or the thermal expansion valve

both these are cheaper I thought, but I need a new dryer to as im opening it up right?

Theres power to the pressure switch and all the way via the black box in front of the battery to the compressor, and the compress engages so is that all clear now move on the two above?

Im thinking of doing an aircon course now I have learnt that much.

One question how the hell do you find the parts or charging points on different cars lol, I have ponly just mastered this one.

want to get this working, my next task is finding a

ABS-unit / Kelsey-Hayes EBC 430
13216604-G / K-H13091804 / S108196007-K

that's a mission

 

[Neverth]

The ports are right on compressor inlet/outlet -> no change between them: compressor not working or pressure cant build up as there is no chokepoint.
The expansion valve is on evaporator (firewall side) and changing that would require taking the dash out.

The compressor should be nippondenso tv12sc.
It has internal flow control that can bypass the main pump and operate at about 17% of total capacity (stuck?).
Also it is vane type so it could fail without leaking externally.

I got same compressor at 198k km (155 HLX weekend) and it still works.

 

[neilneil]

ok so new compressor it is then

 

[neilneil]

Actually while Im changing the compressor and the dryer I may as well change the pressure switch too

 

[neilneil]

Ok new compressor, dryer and pressure valve have arrived.

I will drain the system and remove the compressor.

Just read its best to flush the sys. What I have read.

1. flush evaporator via engine bulk head connectors.

2. Remove and flush hoses/pipes.

3. don't flush compressor or dryer ( I'm replacing anyway)

Is there a better way of doing this, I haven't got an air compressor or flush gun, was going to ask service centre to do this for me, but cant drive it if I pull it apart?

also anyone got any idea what the sensor type thing is next to the air con and hazard light button/switch, its some sort of sensor with a mini fan behind it, mine was really dirty/dusty so cleaned it with cotton bud.

still don't work so looks like im replacing the above this weekend, if my manifold gauge arrives and vacuum arrives.

Thanks Again.

 

[neilneil]

Plot Thickens

my maxiscan arrived today.

Had two codes on there

P0200 Injector Circuit Open, I will take this to the garage as I had a problem where the car wouldn't start on New Years Eve, cost me over £400 to get a fuel injector injector replaced. So this they can sort out.

The other is this, maybe linked to air con not working ????

P0481 - Cooling Fan 2 Control Circuit Malfunction

Possible causes
- Faulty fan control relay
- Faulty cooling fan 2
- Fan control relay harness is open or shorted
- Fan control relay circuit poor electrical connection
- Fan cooling fan harness is open or shorted
- Fan cooling fan circuit poor electrical connection

P0481 Description
The electric cooling fan is controlled by the Engine Control Module (ECM) through the cooling fan relay based on inputs from the following components:
- The engine coolant temperature (ECT) sensor
- The intake air temperature (IAT) sensor
- The A/C selector switch
- The A/C refrigerant pressure sensor
- The vehicle speed sensor (VSS)
The ECM controls the cooling fan by grounding the cooling fan control circuit which turns ON the cooling fan relay. The cooling fan relay will be commanded ON when the following conditions are met:
- The engine coolant temperature reaches 106°C (223°F) or more.
- The A/C clutch requested.
- The vehicle speed is less than 38 MPH.
The cooling fan relay will be commanded ON regardless of vehicle speed when the following conditions are met:
- The engine coolant temperature is 151°C (304°F) or more.
- The A/C refrigerant pressure is high.
The cooling fan may be commanded ON when the engine is not running under a fan run-on conditions described in the electric cooling fan general description portion of the service manual.

So how do I test this, the engine does not over heat, never has, I can hear the fan kicking in, runs after the engine is turned off (normal I think)

 

[neilneil]

http://www.bba-reman.com/content.aspx?content=DTC_P0481

 

[Neverth]

I'd say you dont need to flush, people have had the system open for couple years, slapped on new parts and all good.
Just dont get too much sand in the pipes
There should be only AC oil and dye, rest of the stuff should be air/other gas contaminants (unless you got gaping hole in front that sucks sand in).

Sucking in the vacuum clears the system.
You need to remove the dash if you change the pressure valve, evaporator with it.
Image

The fan on dash circulates air for the auto-aircon (cabin temperature sensor).

Cooling fan relay.... just drive faster.
Marea has two stage radiator fan. Low speed relay is for aircon and engine cooling, high speed is for the second stage (coolant so hot the low speed cannot cool it).
I think the circuit 2 is highspeed.
I've had the low speed relay error sometimes and it doesnt affect too much, only if you are stationary for longer perioids.

 

[neilneil]

Thanks again.

Sorry I meant switch not valve. don't fancy removing the dash.

Recon compressor, New Dryer and New Pressure Switch this weekend.

I may try the old pressure switch as that seems to work ok, save a little dollar.

Just got the Autodata Air Con 2 book, very good but only goes up to year 2000.

 

[neilneil]

Just checking as i'm going from a 2000 manual where mine is 2002

R134a - 600grams

Refrigerant oil is dens oil 9? ( was going to use pag iso 100 or ester 100 oil ?

Full sys 130 -170 ml

Compressor amount taken out of old
Condense 40ml
Evaporator 40ml
Line 5ml
Receiver/Dryer 15ml

I'm replacing the compressor and the dryer only now.

So I put into the compressor the same amount as I took out and then add 15ml for the dryer via the manifold yellow line when I put the dye and 30ml oil in before I charge.

Someone said but an extra 30ml oil in for past leaks? or did they mean for new gas as above?



This was useful updated most of my questions

http://www.naasltd.com/Resources/FileBrowser/Media/Documents/CVS/Refrigerant%20and%20oil%20charge%20chart.pdf

 

[Neverth]

So you only had the system open for couple hours?
Fiat specs six hours for the oil to go bad when system is open.
Only add 10 more grams than you took out.

Calculate rest from these:
Compressor
Oiling the compressor (as you did)
Amounts
Pressure

 

[gurjits]

So Neil, any update on your air-con repair work?