Technical Fiat Ducato Brake bleeding problem

[Blackhawk9]

Hi All, I have a Fiat Ducato 3.0 L4H3 2009, I have just fitted new brake hoses, discs and callipers to the front of my van, when bleeding the brakes using my Autel Diagnostic unit, the abs pump only fires up on the right front and rear brakes, nothing happens on the left side, presuming this is not right as the pedal does come up hard but when you start the engine the pedal goes long, any help please guy would be wonderful, thanks in advance.

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

The first thing that comes to my mind is Autel doing it correctly, same as MES would do... Perhaps the others have experiance with bleeding the brakes with Autel.

 

[Blackhawk9]

Hello,

The first thing that comes to my mind is Autel doing it correctly, same as MES would do... Perhaps the others have experiance with bleeding the brakes with Autel.

Hi Thanks for your reply, so your saying it might be the Autel that is not running the abs unit when it suggests it should be?

 

[the green vanper]

Hi Thanks for your reply, so your saying it might be the Autel that is not running the abs unit when it suggests it should be?

Yes, but it's a general idea based on the fact that sometimes FIATs do not like the generic diagnostic systems. I have no experience with bleeding the brakes.

In the download section of the forum you've got the x250 workshop manual (even two of them), as far as I remember they cover the pre-lift models. Perhaps you'll find a hint on how to resolve the issue.

EDIT: there is a proper order of bleeding and this one can be different depending if you use vacuum or not. I can't remember the proper order now and I don't have access to the third party workshop manual I own.

 

[MSjoberg]

In MES there seems to be different possibilities depending on which Bosch ABS version the car is equipped with. E.g. for one version there are functions for "Hydraulic circuit 1 bleed" and "Hydraulic circuit 2 bleed". Each circuit controls two diagonal wheels FL-RR or FR-RL. There is also a function for "Hydraulic unit bleed" but that is only intended for the ABS module itself and not the brake lines.

 

[Reg 65]

I bought a Gunsons brake bleeding kit 50 years ago and its been used successfully on many vehicles since - including the X2/50
Its just a plasttic bottle you fill with brake fluid with 2 pipes coming out. One pipe goes to the spare tyre to pressurise it. The other pipe goes to a cap you fit on the master cylinder so it pushes clean fluid through the system. No need to pump the pedal - you just open each bleed valve in turn till clean fluid comes out.
Simple one man operation with 100% success so far. So I have never looked at any other methods.

 

[bugsymike]

I bought a Gunsons brake bleeding kit 50 years ago and its been used successfully on many vehicles since - including the X2/50
Its just a plasttic bottle you fill with brake fluid with 2 pipes coming out. One pipe goes to the spare tyre to pressurise it. The other pipe goes to a cap you fit on the master cylinder so it pushes clean fluid through the system. No need to pump the pedal - you just open each bleed valve in turn till clean fluid comes out.
Simple one man operation with 100% success so far. So I have never looked at any other methods.

I tend to agree, although now long retired from the trade, I have never needed the use of electronic bleed assistance on any type of brake system.
Maybe I was lucky , maybe the later ABS is designed to work better when bled that way who knows.
Any time a really hard to bleed one came along then a simple pressure bleed system did the job, such as the Gunsons one mentioned.
I have even simply removed a bleeder and kept topping the fluid up until it ran clean then replacing the bleeder.
This can also help when a slow/lazy master cylinder is aggravating the job.

 

[Communicator]

Yesterday I was using my Gunson's kit to bleed the clutch on my 2.8jtd, but it has also been used on our Saab 9-3, and Skoda Fabia braking systems, both of which are ABS systems, Many years ago I experienced surging due to air bubbles expanding when using the Gunson's fluid reservoir. My technique now is to fill the vehicle fluid reservoir to the brim, topping up when necessary and keeping the Gunson dry. Works for me.

 

[Blackhawk9]

I have the Gunson Ezzibleed and have put about 3L of dot 4 through the system, and the pedal appears good until you start the engine and you get a long pedal with almost no brakes.

 

[bugsymike]

I have the Gunson Ezzibleed and have put about 3L of dot 4 through the system, and the pedal appears good until you start the engine and you get a long pedal with almost no brakes.

I assume now all air has been bled out, but pedal still poor when you start?
I would use my brake pipe clamps to be sure one side is not still at fault. Advise only do this with proper brake pipe clamps, not Mole grips.
If still the same, have you tried bleeding both/or more in some cases, pipes at master cylinder? If air got in when fitting the calipers etc.
If still no joy possibly a weak master cylinder.
It may sound daft , but is there any movement on the front hub bearings/discs, this would usually show as a better pedal on second pump/press as disc and pads square up.
Sometimes a weak master cylinder will appear better if you stamp the pedal, but not if gentle application as it forces the rubber seals to make a firmer contact/seal with cylinder barrel.

 

[jackwhoo]

There is a distinct possibility that operating the abs unit has drawn air into the unit rather than purging unit.

Likely you will have to carry out the procedure again with a scan tool that can perform the procedure correctly.

Sorry that you you are having problems.

 

[jackwhoo]

Using correct brake hose clamps on hoses could help identify where any air remains, as suggested by Mike