Technical Fiat 800 with BMW boxer?

[IgorToko]

Hello all,

I’m thinking of getting a classic car, I always loved vintage cars, especially the ones with boxer air cooled sound. Since vintage Porsches are out of my reach, I thought it would be really cool to recreate a “mini Porsche” based on a fiat 850 coupe. I always loved the style of those, especially the first generation with single lamps.

I was reading about VW beetle type 1 swaps, but it feels like that will increase the weight of the rear and possibly make it dangerous.

I had the idea of using the engine + gearbox of the BMW 700 car (it uses a twin boxer based on the bmw bikes). I have read that it should be fairly easy to exchange the cylinders of those engines for bigger CC (stock is 700 but I think 900 could fit with new camshaft and heads).

I think the fabrication would involve making custom mounting plates for the engine and transmission, and new CV rods (besides the shifter and other hoses, exhaust, etc.). I think it could make about 50-60 horses when upgraded.

I live in Sweden and saw some engines and gearboxes from the bmw available in Germany.

Is this a stupid idea? I would love to have a small lightweight car with the fiat style and air cooled engine. My goal is not to make it super fast, but similar or slightly faster, just with more of an air-cooled spirit

 

[bugsymike]

Hello all,

I’m thinking of getting a classic car, I always loved vintage cars, especially the ones with boxer air cooled sound. Since vintage Porsches are out of my reach, I thought it would be really cool to recreate a “mini Porsche” based on a fiat 850 coupe. I always loved the style of those, especially the first generation with single lamps.

I was reading about VW beetle type 1 swaps, but it feels like that will increase the weight of the rear and possibly make it dangerous.

I had the idea of using the engine + gearbox of the BMW 700 car (it uses a twin boxer based on the bmw bikes). I have read that it should be fairly easy to exchange the cylinders of those engines for bigger CC (stock is 700 but I think 900 could fit with new camshaft and heads).

I think the fabrication would involve making custom mounting plates for the engine and transmission, and new CV rods (besides the shifter and other hoses, exhaust, etc.). I think it could make about 50-60 horses when upgraded.

I live in Sweden and saw some engines and gearboxes from the bmw available in Germany.

Is this a stupid idea? I would love to have a small lightweight car with the fiat style and air cooled engine

Sounds like fun, I would check direction of rotation as you don't want it going faster backwards than forwards.

 

[IgorToko]

Sounds like fun, I would check direction of rotation as you don't want it going faster backwards than forwards.

Thanks for replying! I would transfer both the engine and transmission so I don’t need to make custom clutch solutions. So it would still have 4 forward and one backwards speeds

 

[IgorToko]

This is the drivetrain from the bmw, it’s also mounted behind the rear wheel

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks for replying! I would transfer both the engine and transmission so I don’t need to make custom clutch solutions. So it would still have 4 forward and one backwards speeds

Reason I mentioned it was some with 850 campers wanted more power and ran into issues as mentioned, but I think they were marrying larger Fiat engines to existing gearbox.
So if your BMW engine and transmission was in similar format should be OK.
Incidentally have you looked on wikipedia re Fiat 850s as Fiat had some major racing versions from memory around 150mph.

 

[bugsymike]

This is the drivetrain from the bmw, it’s also mounted behind the rear wheel

I see there is no cooling fan and cowlings so surely overheating when inside rear engine compartment?
I am not trying to pour cold water on it as I think it is an interesting project and over the years I have put many different engines in cars and boats, although mainly diesels for economy reasons.
I just try and check the practical issues that may come along.

 

[IgorToko]

I see there is no cooling fan and cowlings so surely overheating when inside rear engine compartment?

Thanks for the insights, and I look for advice/opinions, so this is great input. From what I´ve seen, the fan is mounted on the shaft of the engine, similar to VW type3 & Type 4 engines. Perhaps with increased volume and power I would need to add more cooling to it.

 

[IgorToko]

I have seen other performance versions of the 850, but they become quite pricey. I plan to enjoy the car as a weekend cruiser, so I don´t want to get super high performance out of it

 

[bugsymike]

I have seen other performance versions of the 850, but they become quite pricey. I plan to enjoy the car as a weekend cruiser, so I don´t want to get super high performance out of it

I agree, just an interesting conversion for your own pleasure.

 

[Volatileticker]

Great idea , I’m very keen to see how this turns out. Ill keep an eye one the updates and if i can help along the way it would be a pleasure.

 

[dragonwagon]

If you can tolerate water cooling why not use a Fiat Fire 1242cc unit with a Simca 1000 final drive?

 

[bugsymike]

If you can tolerate water cooling why not use a Fiat Fire 1242cc unit with a Simca 1000 final drive?

Are there many Simca 1000s around these days?
Last time I saw one was mid 70s, we had an old storeman who used to spend a lot of his time abroad and drove his Simca 1000 over regularly to Spain, thinking he had cracked it by buying Vodka and carefully filling all his bottled water containers with it to evade Customs, he was well past retirement age so long dead now along with his Simca I imagine.

 

[dragonwagon]

Are there many Simca 1000s around these days?
Last time I saw one was mid 70s, we had an old storeman who used to spend a lot of his time abroad and drove his Simca 1000 over regularly to Spain, thinking he had cracked it by buying Vodka and carefully filling all his bottled water containers with it to evade Customs, he was well past retirement age so long dead now along with his Simca I imagine.

Probably not in the UK, although Spain and France should be reasonable hunting grounds. Strangely, two Rallye2's live within a couple of miles of me.

 

[bugsymike]

Probably not in the UK, although Spain and France should be reasonable hunting grounds. Strangely, two Rallye2's live within a couple of miles of me.

Our weather does seem to remove many older vehicles.
I recall in late 70s when I had a couple of Renault 10s that were just about staggering on and quite rare yet on a trip in France near Toulon all the local boy racers had the Renault 8s in tuned up form and even with dents there was no sign of rust.
Round about the same time we had a Renault Caravelle in for Mot which failed miserable, I liked the style of it and it was offered to me for £150, but on inspection I declined as rust was terminal.
I also inspected an Amphicar for £65 which in hindsite I should have just stored given how rare they are now, but at the time I just bought my cars if I fancied them and the price was in my range.

 

[dragonwagon]

Our weather does seem to remove many older vehicles.
I recall in late 70s when I had a couple of Renault 10s that were just about staggering on and quite rare yet on a trip in France near Toulon all the local boy racers had the Renault 8s in tuned up form and even with dents there was no sign of rust.
Round about the same time we had a Renault Caravelle in for Mot which failed miserable, I liked the style of it and it was offered to me for £150, but on inspection I declined as rust was terminal.
I also inspected an Amphicar for £65 which in hindsite I should have just stored given how rare they are now, but at the time I just bought my cars if I fancied them and the price was in my range.

My first car was a 500 Sport from 1957 in RHD. Rarer than incandescent unicorns nowadays but it went the way of all old cars - to the scrapman with terminal rust. Knowing what I now know, I would have pulled out all stops to repair it.

 

[bugsymike]

My first car was a 500 Sport from 1957 in RHD. Rarer than incandescent unicorns nowadays but it went the way of all old cars - to the scrapman with terminal rust. Knowing what I now know, I would have pulled out all stops to repair it.

I often thought that, but tried to weigh it up against even 50p per week storage over the years.