Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

[Super Uwe]

Pleased to report my neighbour picked up her new 500 1.2 lounge in bossa nova white at 10am this morning with me in tow. Dealer was happy to let me test it on a couple of (VERY) steep hills and pleased to report that the car drives nicely with no problems! Hopefully this points to the "watchdog" problems being finally laid to rest.....to be sure I took it out for an extended drive when we got back to her place and the engine appeared to pull exactly as the old 1.2 fitted in my Panda.

It is good to hear stories like this, I guess it backs up the general trend on here that the cars are gradually beginning to get sorted at long last.

Still doesn't make me feel any more positive about Fiat as a whole though. They are in for some tough times IMO, unless they can demonstrate a massive improvement in their general customer care and after sales.

There are some great dealerships and individuals working for the brand who do a great job for their customers, but it seems to me they are being let down time and time again by Fiat centrally.

 

[jrkitching]

I've never known a company put up such resistance and belligerence towards their customers. As I have said before, I will never be buying Fiat again. It's been a highly stressful, upsetting episode that currently doesn't appear to be letting up.

And that's why the Watchdog issue won't be put to rest for a long, long while, even if they fix all the cars tomorrow.

Fiat's attitude to sorting this out is a much greater problem that the issue itself. IMO if they'd spent their entire marketing budget for the next ten years trying to make the brand look bad, they couldn't have done a better job than this.

Even now, they are still apparently reneging on commitments and continuing to make long-suffering customers jump through hoops to get what has already been promised.

 

[babyferrari]

Forgive me but has anyone ever quantified the number of cars involved. Seems from this thread that there are a few very vocal people. However the thread hasn't been flooded with "me too" stories and as you would expect people with problems like this would congregate in a thread like this I really don't see the problem (which I am not disputing and have a huge amount of sympathy with) being as big as some may believe. Controversial perhaps.
I also find it slightly odd that some use this forum to bad mouth fiat and to tell everyone they will not be buying another fiat. Believe me there are other manufacturers / dealers that are worse!
A range of opinions is a good thing but banging a drum can get a bit boring.


500C TA 105

 

[ahmett]

Forgive me but has anyone ever quantified the number of cars involved. Seems from this thread that there are a few very vocal people. However the thread hasn't been flooded with "me too" stories and as you would expect people with problems like this would congregate in a thread like this I really don't see the problem (which I am not disputing and have a huge amount of sympathy with) being as big as some may believe. Controversial perhaps.
I also find it slightly odd that some use this forum to bad mouth fiat and to tell everyone they will not be buying another fiat. Believe me there are other manufacturers / dealers that are worse!
A range of opinions is a good thing but banging a drum can get a bit boring.


500C TA 105

you are saying that because you havent dealt with Fiat's awful CS. Believe me, I have, and I never want to go through it again.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Forgive me but has anyone ever quantified the number of cars involved. Seems from this thread that there are a few very vocal people. However the thread hasn't been flooded with "me too" stories and as you would expect people with problems like this would congregate in a thread like this I really don't see the problem

Not everyone uses a computer or online forums though, or will bother commenting even if they've viewed the thread as can't be bothered to register etc.

The fact its been on watchdog means its a very big problem, they don't just do an article on something affecting half a dozen people!

you are saying that because you havent dealt with Fiat's awful CS. Believe me, I have, and I never want to go through it again.

:yeahthat: I've dealt with them regarding another issue, and they've been just as bad - I would post the link, but you probably wouldn't want to be bothered with reading about my banging on.

Its funny how Toyota have been faultless in resolving any issues or concerns I've had!

 

[puntofan01]

Forgive me but has anyone ever quantified the number of cars involved. Seems from this thread that there are a few very vocal people. However the thread hasn't been flooded with "me too" stories and as you would expect people with problems like this would congregate in a thread like this I really don't see the problem (which I am not disputing and have a huge amount of sympathy with) being as big as some may believe. Controversial perhaps.
I also find it slightly odd that some use this forum to bad mouth fiat and to tell everyone they will not be buying another fiat. Believe me there are other manufacturers / dealers that are worse!
A range of opinions is a good thing but banging a drum can get a bit boring.


500C TA 105

I fully intend to buy a 3rd Fiat when the sad time comes for me to change my car.

2008 Grande Punto 1.4 8v Eleganza.

 

[JimbbobW1977]

I have had the displeasure of being on the end of the phone to Fiat and Alfa customer services due to ridiculous faults arising from design flaws.

Needles to say they were most unhelpful, undoing the good work of the dealer.

When the time came to replace the Fiat and Alfa needles to say we walked away from the brand, and glad to of and something I have not regretted in the last two years.

A Guilietta was on my list of cars for consideration but this was scratched off.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

A Guilietta was on my list of cars for consideration but this was scratched off.

Ditto.

 

[RussH]

I really liked my Guillietta. 60k miles and no issues apart from a rear suspension bush. I had a 1.4MA as a loan car when mine was in for service, I was really impressed with that engine, way nicer than the Golf equivalent.

I would have a 1.4TCT any day over the German competition.

 

[babyferrari]

The question remains. How many cars are affected?


500C TA 105

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

The question remains. How many cars are affected?


500C TA 105

Who knows :shrug:


Prius Plug-In 134

 

[jrkitching]

The question remains. How many cars are affected?

I don't think that's the real issue.

What this is really about is the way in which Fiat have handled those customers who have been affected by it, and we seem to be getting consistently negative feedback on that.

As several folks have already said, there is always a chance that any individual new car, of any marque, will turn out to be a lemon. That's a risk all new car buyers must take; the impact of that risk, should the worst happen, depends mostly on the manufacturer's policy for dealing with such faults.

This issue has clearly shown Fiat's policy for dealing with new car purchasers who encounter serious problems. It affects anyone contemplating buying any new Fiat, because there is always the chance of a serious fault, and most folks would rightly want to be reassured that they would be properly looked after in the event that the worst happened.

I would no longer have that reassurance, so I would no longer consider purchasing a new Fiat.

 

[Andyb80]

Apparently Fiat won't say how many cars are effected but around 850 people have already had the update.

 

[MrDerv]

Apparently Fiat won't say how many cars are effected but around 850 people have already had the update.

According to Watchdog

Likelyhood is, it's far worse than that given their sales of the 500 so far

 

[zanes]

I don't think that's the real issue.

What this is really about is the way in which Fiat have handled those customers who have been affected by it, and we seem to be getting consistently negative feedback on that.

As several folks have already said, there is always a chance that any individual new car, of any marque, will turn out to be a lemon. That's a risk all new car buyers must take; the impact of that risk, should the worst happen, depends mostly on the manufacturer's policy for dealing with such faults.

This issue has clearly shown Fiat's policy for dealing with new car purchasers who encounter serious problems. It affects anyone contemplating buying any new Fiat, because there is always the chance of a serious fault, and most folks would rightly want to be reassured that they would be properly looked after in the event that the worst happened.

I would no longer have that reassurance, so I would no longer consider purchasing a new Fiat.

This post really distils the essence of this problem very, very well.

Yes, every marque has its problems (Merc with their E-class injector debacle a few years back, Toyota with the acceleration problems, Suzuki with the Celerio brake pedal problems) but the real issue is how they deal with it.

IMHO, even one customer with this issue being given the run around that some have had on this would be unacceptable. Someone you've agreed to provide a replacement car for being asked if they'd take £400 cash and the old vehicle back, then being given the run around on delivery? What a joke.

FWIW (and this is even more worrying for a potential buyer) these experiences seem to be at many dealers; suggesting the problem comes from within FIAT UK (or even FIAT "head office" back in Italy?) rather than just one or two rogue dealers.

It seems so bad that the only way I could advise buying a FIAT* would be via a credit card(s) so you at least have the formal CCA protection- though that's likely to add 2.5% to the cost of the car. However, it sounds like the in house finance company would be adequate.

*And I would strongly discourage anyone from doing that- which is a real shame.

As to numbers, we'll never know unless there's a formal VOSA recall. Given that newer EU6 cars *seem* to be better from reports, I still suspect the issue (whatever it is) is batch based to some extent- that could be anywhere from hundreds to thousands of cars. Far more if it affects LHD vehicles too.

I did think I'd seen a post on this thread where someone had been at a dealers with 30-40 "rejected" cars sat in a compound.

Watchdog won't have done repeated segments with a couple of complaints.

This sort of thing was always the risk with FIAT pushing into the "premium" car market.

 

[chas379]

I really liked my Guillietta. 60k miles and no issues apart from a rear suspension bush. I had a 1.4MA as a loan car when mine was in for service, I was really impressed with that engine, way nicer than the Golf equivalent.

I would have a 1.4TCT any day over the German competition.

I 'cashed in' my A500 (Manual) for a Giulietta 1.4 with TCT when it came time for me to change, as I did not like the MTA box on the A500 when I did a test drive. I needed the flexibillty of an auto box so my OH could drive the car as she has problems operating a clutch due to a knee problem.

14 months down the line and buying from new I am really pleased with the car and have no regrets.

My affiliation to the FF is that my OH is on her 3rd 500 with Dualogic transmission.

 

[Andyb80]

Likelyhood is, it's far worse than that given their sales of the 500 so far

Absolutely!

 

[highlander52]

What this is really about is the way in which Fiat have handled those customers who have been affected by it, and we seem to be getting consistently negative feedback on that.

I agree wholeheartedly with this comment. Absolutely scandalous and so unprofessional, this disaster will cost Fiat a packet. I am very happy with my 2015 T/A 500 but wish I had a pound for everybody who I meet that tells me that it won't go up hills (yes they insist they are correct as it appeared on watchdog!) :bang:

Do Fiat ever read these forums? If they do can I please ask them to read this reply from a Chinese phone manufacturer ( who I predict will have a GREAT future) to a query on their forum. This is how you look after your customers!
Wise up Fiat and start looking after your followers because the age of SUPER COMPETITION from the far east is about to hit you and this kind of crap support will be your undoing.

Taken from the one plus one website forum

Over the past few weeks, we’ve seen a substantial amount of feedback regarding touchscreen issues. Before an informed response could be given, first we investigated the case thoroughly. We wanted to get the full picture of what could be causing this issue, as well as prepare a number of solutions.

Although percentage-wise the number of touchscreen cases is very small, we understand that our user base is very vocal. We take your feedback seriously and have been putting the One through a battery of tests and determined that there are different issues at play, some software and some hardware. We have, and will continue, to stand behind our products and honor warranty.

Working closely with Synaptics, we will soon be releasing a final firmware fix. If you would rather not wait and are experiencing any issues, touchscreen or otherwise, please contact our support team. We are constantly making changes and improving our service level. If a previous interaction with support left you unsatisfied, we encourage those who believe their devices are affected by this issue to try again.

As always, our users are our number one priority and we would like to thank you all for your patience and continued confidence in us. Never Settle.

Update (May 10): While processing these cases, we've noticed that there's some confusion regarding what is in warranty and what is out of warranty. If your device is in warranty, we will happily take care of it for you. If your display is cracked, phone is water damaged, or in any other way out of warranty, you will be charged a fee to have these issues fixed. If you're unsure, please refer to our warranty terms or ask our support team. As always, we're here to help.

Update (May 15): The new firmware is ready and under testing. Early signs are very encouraging for the small amount of users who have been having touchscreen issues. If after the update you still face issues, our support team is on standby ready to help!

 

[ab4444]

It appears so, Ahmett. This entire week has been a further massive wind up and so far with little result.

After calling Fiat Monday and being promised a call back (but knowing full well they wouldn't), I called them first thing Tuesday wanting to know why they NEVER return calls. I eventually spoke with my case manager at Fiat CS who told me the delays in releasing my vehicle was due to internal administrative processes that regrettably had gotten delayed. He apologised and said that he would hope to have it all 'resolved' by close of play Tuesday.

The dealership has been chasing them ever since as they have not received a return phone call to ANY of their calls, either, and today after yet further false promises by Fiat, my dealer spoke to me saying that he had fired off a stinking email (he actually ccd me in) saying that he couldn't believe how badly they were treating me, how embarrassing it was for them as the dealership given that they represent the brand, and how they suspect that I will never purchase another Fiat ever again.

I also learnt today from the dealer that my car has been sitting on their forecourt for 3 WEEKS. Fiat have not permitted the release of paperwork for all this time and thus, the dealership have not been able to register my car.

I am fuming. I will be phoning FGA Capital (or whatever their new name is) first thing and I will be giving them my very last ultimatum; they get me evidence in WRITING that the car is released and can be collected on Saturday by lunchtime, or I will stop payments with immediate effect and I will see them in court.

I will then be phoning Fiat every 10 minutes until I get put through to this case manager and give him merry hell. I will demand to know why they refuse to let me have a vehicle that I have been waiting and paying for for months. I will demand to know how they think they are acting lawfully when they are effectively holding people's property to ransom.

At the stroke of midday, I will then call the finance company back and demand to know where my email is (because let's face it; it isn't going to arrive). When it isn't in my inbox, I will contact my bank and cancel my payments. And before anyone chirps up that it will affect my credit rating; yes, I'm aware of that and it will do in the short term. That's why I'd be taking Fiat to court.

All the while, I will be keeping the dealership closely informed.

Aside from one gentleman who has contacted me privately, are there anybody else out there who has been in a similar position, i.e. had the hill start model, kicked off at Fiat, got a second replacement car, and for Fiat to renege on the deal and refuse to give the car over?

I also need to start seeking legal advice and will do so from tomorrow lunchtime. Oh, and I'll also be trying to do my job, have a life, put a bullet-point list of my entire sorry tale together and start ringing round the major broadsheet newspapers and gathering together the names of all the car journalists to whom I should be writing to to finally expose Fiat for the lying, cheating scumbags they really are.

 

[ahmett]

It appears so, Ahmett. This entire week has been a further massive wind up and so far with little result.

After calling Fiat Monday and being promised a call back (but knowing full well they wouldn't), I called them first thing Tuesday wanting to know why they NEVER return calls. I eventually spoke with my case manager at Fiat CS who told me the delays in releasing my vehicle was due to internal administrative processes that regrettably had gotten delayed. He apologised and said that he would hope to have it all 'resolved' by close of play Tuesday.

The dealership has been chasing them ever since as they have not received a return phone call to ANY of their calls, either, and today after yet further false promises by Fiat, my dealer spoke to me saying that he had fired off a stinking email (he actually ccd me in) saying that he couldn't believe how badly they were treating me, how embarrassing it was for them as the dealership given that they represent the brand, and how they suspect that I will never purchase another Fiat ever again.

I also learnt today from the dealer that my car has been sitting on their forecourt for 3 WEEKS. Fiat have not permitted the release of paperwork for all this time and thus, the dealership have not been able to register my car.

I am fuming. I will be phoning FGA Capital (or whatever their new name is) first thing and I will be giving them my very last ultimatum; they get me evidence in WRITING that the car is released and can be collected on Saturday by lunchtime, or I will stop payments with immediate effect and I will see them in court.

I will then be phoning Fiat every 10 minutes until I get put through to this case manager and give him merry hell. I will demand to know why they refuse to let me have a vehicle that I have been waiting and paying for for months. I will demand to know how they think they are acting lawfully when they are effectively holding people's property to ransom.

At the stroke of midday, I will then call the finance company back and demand to know where my email is (because let's face it; it isn't going to arrive). When it isn't in my inbox, I will contact my bank and cancel my payments. And before anyone chirps up that it will affect my credit rating; yes, I'm aware of that and it will do in the short term. That's why I'd be taking Fiat to court.

All the while, I will be keeping the dealership closely informed.

Aside from one gentleman who has contacted me privately, are there anybody else out there who has been in a similar position, i.e. had the hill start model, kicked off at Fiat, got a second replacement car, and for Fiat to renege on the deal and refuse to give the car over?

I also need to start seeking legal advice and will do so from tomorrow lunchtime. Oh, and I'll also be trying to do my job, have a life, put a bullet-point list of my entire sorry tale together and start ringing round the major broadsheet newspapers and gathering together the names of all the car journalists to whom I should be writing to to finally expose Fiat for the lying, cheating scumbags they really are.

good luck! i personally would have stopped paying a long time ago. no car, no money = )
a credit rating is only important if you plan on taking a new loan (credit card, bank loan, fiancing a phone or car, mortgage).
if you need none of that, then its ok and as you said you can always improve your credit rating back to normal once the default file is gone if you fight fiat in court.