Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

[jrkitching]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

I'm thinking it would be very useful to have a quick visual way of identifying a Euro 6 1.2.

Unfortunately I still haven't even seen one close up.

Any ideas?

 

[renef180]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

I don't have this problem with my 500c that I bought exactly a year ago, but I can understand it after my recent weekend in Rome. We rented a Panda for a couple of days, and it was fine for running about in Rome's heavy traffic. But, when we took it back at the end of the rental to the muli-story car park, a strange thing happened. I tried to drive up the first ramp, and it wouldn't do it! In first, foot down, it simply staggered to a halt. I had to then do a full blooded hill start with high revs., then do the same thing again at the bottom of the next four ramps.
This was a brand new Panda, and I think there is a serious issue with whatever Fiat have done to the engine management. I noticed that the Watchdog programme is due to have a feature on Fiat 500's this week, which is probably related. Watch this space!

 

[MrDerv]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

I'm thinking it would be very useful to have a quick visual way of identifying a Euro 6 1.2.

Unfortunately I still haven't even seen one close up.

Any ideas?

Did the Euro5 have Start/Stop? If not, then there's your answer

 

[jrkitching]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Did the Euro5 have Start/Stop? If not, then there's your answer

Start/Stop was optional from launch, and standard from the 2010 model year onwards, so that's no help.

I'm thinking about something physical on the car (clutch position sensor, perhaps?) that unambiguously identifies the engine type, much like you can definitively tell if a Mk3 Panda has the Euro 5 engine (significant because this was the first interference 1.2 8V FIRE) by the presence of the vvt actuator on the cam cover.

I've a feeling this is going to be significant for anyone contemplating a used car purchase.

 

[MrDerv]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Start/Stop was optional from launch, and standard from the 2010 model year onwards, so that's no help.

Pants

How about it's ability to get up hills? If you can successfully reach the top, you don't have a Euro6 engine

In all seriousness, i have no idea. I thought the presence of SS would have been on the Euro6 for emissions reduction

 

[Mercky]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

perhaps there's something on the VIN plate under the boot carpet, a code or whatever that might identify engine type or even build date? I cant remember what's on mine bar the VIN.

 

[Jazzist]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

What about the numberplate 14 onwards? Or are some 63 Euro??

 

[jrkitching]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

What about the numberplate 14 onwards? Or are some 63 Euro??

Sometimes cars get registered quite a while after their build date, so registration date can't be relied upon for cars close to a changeover point.

Are Fiat still using the 169A4000 code for the Euro6 1.2 engine? Fiat's website is hopeless for finding technical information.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

In all seriousness, i have no idea. I thought the presence of SS would have been on the Euro6 for emissions reduction

Well not necessarily, if they could I'm sure Fiat would drop SS, I know Toyota have on their euro 6 engines as apparently more people disliked it than liked it, so they listened to customer feedback and went with it.

 

[MrDerv]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Well not necessarily, if they could I'm sure Fiat would drop SS

What? Fiat actually listen to customers feedback? Take the "You're driving it wrong" stance, and I've got more chances of growing a third testicle than them listening lol

 

[auditt]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Ours was built in Oct 2013.The 2010 car we had was also fitted with SS and no problem.

 

[Red Mich]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Well, my car was given the software update at the dealership and I've had it back now for 24 hours. They were very thorough and I didn't experience the problems others have had. They listened to me and said they had had one other customer in with the same issue.
They kept the car for three days so they could try it from cold a couple of times. They admitted they couldn't replicate my problem, but had spoken to Fiat who had recommended the software update.
I took the car on a good run today - up a couple of the VERY steep (2nd and even 1st gear) hills near where I live which have given me issues before. I did some hill starts and genuinely didn't have a problem.
So far, so good.
I'm not naïve enough to believe the problem has been cured, but I felt a lot more confident today than I have in the past few weeks.
We'll see...........

 

[Palma500s]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Thanks for the info Red Mich.

Just to confirm, you tried some steep hill starts and were able to make them without excessive revving (i.e approx 3000 rpm) and without slipping the clutch all the way ?
Do you have any reference number or code for the update?
The fact that the mechanics wanted to try it from cold a few times seems as if the update is more likely to be related to the cold start issue than the throttle response/hill start problem. Mine was consistently bad on hill starts regardless of whether the engine was really warmed up or not.

 

[Savio Du Funk]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Had my 64 plate 500cGQ 1.2 for 3 weeks now and done nearly 1700 miles ( )

Mostly, it's been brilliant. However, there is one hill near where I live that is next to the house and it is always so sluggish to pull away to the point where I feel it's going to stall.

Casual browsing got me to this thread, now I'm considering next steps. It is only on that hill that I'm aware of, but also appreciate I'm probably still in my honeymoon period of ownership where I'm skirting over a few issues...and just smiling

 

[Red Mich]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Thanks for the info Red Mich.

Just to confirm, you tried some steep hill starts and were able to make them without excessive revving (i.e approx 3000 rpm) and without slipping the clutch all the way ?
Do you have any reference number or code for the update?
The fact that the mechanics wanted to try it from cold a few times seems as if the update is more likely to be related to the cold start issue than the throttle response/hill start problem. Mine was consistently bad on hill starts regardless of whether the engine was really warmed up or not.

Hola.
Yes, I think you are right - the update is apparently for the cold start issues. But, that said, I did manage the hill starts without excessive revving or slipping the clutch; something I really struggled with before.
Unfortunately I don't know the code for the update. Do you want me to find out?

 

[Palma500s]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Hola.
Yes, I think you are right - the update is apparently for the cold start issues. But, that said, I did manage the hill starts without excessive revving or slipping the clutch; something I really struggled with before.
Unfortunately I don't know the code for the update. Do you want me to find out?

The code may useful for others so they can request the same upgrade. Especially as you say it has made an improvement.

Thanks

 

[Super Uwe]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Well...the Fiat 500 feature is going to be on Watchdog in the UK tonight (is it 8pm on BBC One?).

Will hopefully get the chance to see it, and that it actually does show up some real life examples of the numerous issues that have cropped up on this thread.

Shame it has got to Watchdog in some respects, hopefully though Fiat will respond properly in the coming days. Not seen anything on the Fiat UK Facebook page about it as yet; maybe not a huge surprise as they wouldn't want to actively draw people's attention to it, but there's no good ignoring it now.

 

[Super Uwe]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

The code may useful for others so they can request the same upgrade. Especially as you say it has made an improvement.

Thanks

Hi Palma500s,

I remember David Bliss quoting a reference number, and have just found it on post 284:

"I have had an email from the Panda owner who had the latest ECU update and thinks that it has made a significant difference to the way the engine now responds. I rang the garage he uses (Chipping Sodbury Motor Company), who have kindly given me the update number. It is intended for improved performance between first and second gear, where there are problems. The number is 10-31-14"

However, with you not being in the UK, I don't know if this one is any use. But hopefully it's the same number as the update Red Mich's car had.

 

[Palma500s]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Thanks Super Uwe

I just wondered if the reference was the same for Red Mich as for David Bliss just to see if there had been a more recent upgrade or not.
I have traded my 1.2 and am waiting for delivery of a 1.3 diesel so it is more of interest to other 1.2 owners than for myself.
I am looking forward to Watchdog tonight though and have sent a link to my Fiat dealer here so he can watch it as he was in complete denial of any problem with my car.

 

[David Bliss]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

[FONT=&quot]We have been living with this disgusting 1.2 engined car for seven months and been fobbed off by the lying lot of customer services and by the dealer. It has put my wife off from driving, she has struggled to cope with the erratic throttle response and now doesn’t want to drive it. If I am right the ‘fix’ is only a slight help and has come too late for us. We decided enough was enough and now have a car that's light years ahead, a short test drive was enough to remind us how a car should go, instant throttle response, masses of torque, everything you want in heavy traffic and for hill starts. We now have a redundant heap of a Panda in the garage, should Fiat or the dealer take it back? We have had seven months of hell with this car, it has put a strain on our pocket and my health at the very time I don't need it. Driving is actually fun now and my wife now drives without problems. There are no clutch recognition issues and it hasn't stalled once, I hadn’t realized how much I had come accustomed to how crappy the performance of the Panda was compared to the old 09 Panda and our new Ford Titanium. I hope those responsible for producing such a terrible engine and then maintaining that there was nothing wrong with it and that it was all the drivers fault will get their just deserts very soon. They sold us a car that was not fit for purpose and should recompense us for the financial loss we have suffered.[/FONT]