Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

[Red Mich]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Well, I've just dropped my car off with the dealer. If they know it's an issue they certainly weren't letting on. I haven't said anything to them about the forum discussions, I'm going to let them tell me what they think it is (if anything) first before I bring out my reams of paper!
I've emailed Watchdog too, to tell them that the car is currently being looked at.
Let's wait and see.....

 

[ahmett]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Well, I've just dropped my car off with the dealer. If they know it's an issue they certainly weren't letting on. I haven't said anything to them about the forum discussions, I'm going to let them tell me what they think it is (if anything) first before I bring out my reams of paper!
I've emailed Watchdog too, to tell them that the car is currently being looked at.
Let's wait and see.....

make sure you email fiat uk also.

 

[MrDerv]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

What might be helpful is the post with rolling road torque figures from the Euro5 and Euro6 engines showing a drop in torque on the latest version*. This might be proof to Fiat there IS something wrong and not us being inept at driving the bloody thing properly!

(*i apologize, i looked for the post, could not find it but it was related to the same engine in the panda)

 

[Red Mich]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

So.... the garage have rung me. They can't replicate the problem on the car, but Fiat have told them about the software update and they would like to do that and then try the car from stone-cold tomorrow morning.
I feel they are taking me seriously and are looking at the options. Chap said on the phone he knew Watchdog were discussing the car next week but takes these things "with a pinch of salt".
Let's see what happens after the update. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks for your support so far! Michelle

 

[Jazzist]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Software update is for a different issue.

 

[David Bliss]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

What might be helpful is the post with rolling road torque figures from the Euro5 and Euro6 engines showing a drop in torque on the latest version*. This might be proof to Fiat there IS something wrong and not us being inept at driving the bloody thing properly!

(*i apologize, i looked for the post, could not find it but it was related to the same engine in the panda)

The rolling road test results compared my new Panda to my 09 Panda (now my daughter's car). I have attached a copy here. I have been putting posts on the 500 pages as the problems are the same.

 

[Jazzist]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Graph summary "2014 car couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding at idle revs".

Never thought like you about hill starts with the car full.. That would be a joke.

 

[Red Mich]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Software update is for a different issue.

Sorry - wasn't it mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread that the update was suggested on the Honest John website? If it isn't for this issue, what is it for? I'm confused now. 500L- don't you think it's worth a try?

 

[Jazzist]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

See if you can read the bulletin, the closest one to the problem is just being tied to this because it's for the engine. Unless there is a new update from the one I read a week or so ago. Yes do it anyway but doubt it's for this fault the one I saw was for lumpy / misfire start.

 

[MrDerv]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

The rolling road test results compared my new Panda to my 09 Panda (now my daughter's car). I have attached a copy here. I have been putting posts on the 500 pages as the problems are the same.

View attachment 145515

Thanks for posting that up David

 

[Palma500s]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Sorry - wasn't it mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread that the update was suggested on the Honest John website? If it isn't for this issue, what is it for? I'm confused now. 500L- don't you think it's worth a try?

Here is the response that Honest John received from Fiat regarding the software update a few weeks ago:

"This update relates to cold starting and nothing more.
The characteristics of the current engine are directly
related to its EU6 homologation and they won't be altered
by this update. I would be curious to know if the owner
reports an improvement in engine response because the
normal engine programming hasn't changed at all."

Then, "but the Panda owner who had the update has reported
an improvement in overall running."

By all means give it a try but as mentioned previously I very much doubt it will have any effect on the main issue discussed in this thread.

 

[jrkitching]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

What might be helpful is the post with rolling road torque figures from the Euro5 and Euro6 engines showing a drop in torque on the latest version*. This might be proof to Fiat there IS something wrong and not us being inept at driving the bloody thing properly!

(*i apologize, i looked for the post, could not find it but it was related to the same engine in the panda)

Actually David Bliss's post compares the latest Euro 6 1.2 with the 2009 60HP Euro 4 engine. The Euro 4 engine was never avalable in the 500.

David's graphs are still useful, but unfortunately they don't provide a comparison of the performance of the 1.2 in the 500, pre and post update.

 

[pulliptears]

Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Just caught this weeks Watchdog which ended with 'Next week the Fiat 500 and problems going up hill'.

I'm guessing as this is Watchdog its going to be something thats been massively blown out of proportion, but anyone any ideas what this is going to be about?
I regularly drive up a 75% incline with no issues so whatever it is isn't affecting my 61 plate 1.2.

Just a heads up anyway so you can all watch it and shout at the TV hehe
Thursday, BBC1, 8pm.

 

[jrkitching]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Just caught this weeks Watchdog which ended with 'Next week the Fiat 500 and problems going up hill'.

I'm guessing as this is Watchdog its going to be something thats been massively blown out of proportion, but anyone any ideas what this is going to be about?
I regularly drive up a 75% incline with no issues so whatever it is isn't affecting my 61 plate 1.2.

Just a heads up anyway so you can all watch it and shout at the TV hehe
Thursday, BBC1, 8pm.

The issue that's being discussed on Watchdog next week only affects cars fitted with the latest Euro6 1.2 engine.

Your '61 plate 500 is just fine .

 

[Jazzist]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

75% incline? Fiat 500 cable car edition?

 

[Mooresey]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

I have a 12 plate 1.2 500, always been able to get up hills. Not in 5th and depending on the gradient not in 4th either, but always get to the top.

 

[auditt]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Its hill starts and low speed driving that is the problem on the EU 6 engine due to lack of torque, not getting up hills.The engine is useless below 2000rpm.

 

[scout]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

I have a 12 plate 1.2 500, always been able to get up hills. Not in 5th and depending on the gradient not in 4th either, but always get to the top.

The problem is with euro 6 engines. You have a euro 5 engine so obviously will have no problems.

 

[RussH]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Well we’ve just traded a Giulietta for a 1.2 500S and a 1.2 Lounge so I was a little disappointed to see this thread! Have we bought a couple of Lemon’s?

I would say not, although we have only had them a few daysand maybe put 2 or 300 miles on them we’re both dead pleased.

We drove a load of 500’s before choosing these two and there was a significant difference between 1.2’s. At the time I put it down to different wheels/trim levels but without doubt some were slugs (these were unregistered/ virtually zero mile ones) whilst some had a few miles on them. They were all 64 reg though. Worst of all being a 500S auto. Best being a 1.2 Lounge which I actually thought was a twin air it went so well, that is until I heard one for real!

Just to put some perspective around this (and I’m not wanting to sound smug or a smart a***) but I like to think I’m a bit of a petrolhead and have a few other cars, diesel and petrol, to compare the 500’s to. To be honest the 1.2 drives just as I expected but after reading this I just took my wife’s out for a spin and took a little more notice about how it pulls away from standstill. Yes not a lot happens below 2k rev’s but as I say above I wasn’t expecting anything else. Compared to the diesel Alfa I find myself needing to be a little more aware when pulling away. But maybe that’s just me getting used to the different characteristics. It will bog down or indeed rev too high, as it’s a petrol it spins up more freely than a diesel, if you don’t get it right. Oddly and counter intuitive I guess having been used to driving diesel carsfor years I’m used to engines bogging down from stand still and the odd moment when I’ve pulled on to a roundabout in second at <1.6k rev’s and wondered if I was about to die.
Having said all the above mine did act weirdly when I reversed up a reasonably steep hill. First it bogged down and then it seems to get itself in to some sort of software induced surge/die mode. Anyway a pause and apply a few rev’s and all was fine.

You would assume this would be a simple matter for Fiat to fix, re write the software, but maybe they are struggling to keep it Euro6 compliant? Or are they not bothered?

Overall we’re both really pleased though I'm not going to get too hung up on this.

 

[AlysonG]

Just caught this weeks Watchdog which ended with 'Next week the Fiat 500 and problems going up hill'.

I'm guessing as this is Watchdog its going to be something thats been massively blown out of proportion, but anyone any ideas what this is going to be about?
I regularly drive up a 75% incline with no issues so whatever it is isn't affecting my 61 plate 1.2.

Just a heads up anyway so you can all watch it and shout at the TV hehe
Thursday, BBC1, 8pm.

I bought a new 500S in May, I love but I have to drive up a steep hill coming home from work in heavy traffic. I have to make a number of hill starts going up and I struggle every time. I thought it was just me until I saw the 'next week on watchdog'. I'm looking forward to watching it. My engine just doesn't rev, I can have my foot flat to the floor and there's nothing, obviously I nearly stall as I lift the clutch or sometimes the engine suddenly comes to life and over revs. It's embarrassing and very uncomfortable. I love the car other than this.