Technical Engine Timing setup 1.4 8v VVT

[tommyb23]

Greetings honorable members,
How does one go about timing the CAMshaft when refitting after working on the valves. I believe for the 1.4 8v non VVT, its straight forward enough with obvious timing mark on the CAM sprocket. The VVT CAM sprocket looks totally different, I can see many marks,

I've been trying to time the engine with cylinder 1 piston at TDC, followed by trying to line up the CAM with cylinder 1 exhaust valve to be the next to open as the Shaft rotates. makes sense right? piston at TDC on comp stroke next move is power stroke with both valves closed followed by opening of exhaust valve on the exhaust stroke.

Hoping somebody out there has experience with this could offer some advise.

I did post some pics and more info here : https://www.fiatforum.com/newbie-ce...joined-what-looks-well-flourishing-forum.html

Thanks for your time

 

[cmosfxx]

You have to lock the camshaft so you can free the pulley before you tension the belt.

I don't know how you can lock it though with out the tool.

 

[tommyb23]

You have to lock the camshaft so you can free the pulley before you tension the belt.

I don't know how you can lock it though with out the tool.

Without being rude, but once you remove the CAMshaft out of the cylinder head, what is there to lock and preserve?
Im cool with the locking the shafts and all but I can't find reference marks to line up with for starters.

scenario: one of your piston con rods does heavy damage to the bottom half of your engine and somehow manages to bend 1 exhaust valve.
you need a total replacement sub assembly (Cylinder block/crankcase, pistons, connectiong rods, crank and sump.) and you need to replace a valve.

because the bottom half of the engine is to be thrown away you disassemble the engine without taking notes.

you recieve a new sub assembly and fit the head on after replacing a valve. the crank has a suitable timing mark, the camshaft doesn't.

please have a look at my pics and see whether you can see a suitable timing mark..

thats why iv been trying to time the engine by looking at what the cam lobes are doing.

 

[cmosfxx]

Don't search for a timing mark.

You have to remove rocker cover to see where you need to lock the shaft.

 

[tommyb23]

Thats what iv been doing, no luck. the closest described proceedure is to look at the other side of camshaft on the battery side and see that the slot is horizontal, and the offset hole below the center line. in this position the engine fails to start!

 

[cmosfxx]

Check attachments. I don't know the angle you have to lock the camshaft but it seems the tool has an angle. Hope someone can help you here as I have done it on 16v engine only.


EDIT:

Was looking this guide here

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto-guides/237966-1-2-8v-evo-2-engine-cam-belt-replacement.html

And it seems the tool does not have an angle so you are right on that. (both 1.2 and 1.4 8v share the same tool)

I hope we miss something and your scenarios will not come true.

 

[tommyb23]

great info thanks man, I d say that locking tool for the gearbox side looks like it has an angle to it. cool. im gonna go out and check/adjust again,
cheers

 

[cmosfxx]

Also check here the guide on page 2 if you haven't

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-pu...-evo-2-engine-cam-belt-replacement-gars2.html

@Andy Monty

 

[tommyb23]

I'm stuck,
I've read all the guides posted by you, and thank you as they helped me understand a lot about this engine.


this video
I tried to do the same as this guy with the crank at TDC mark and the yellow factory paint mark the cam sprocket. Im concerned, cos when I line up the 3 lines on the belt. 2 down on the crank pulley and the other 1 at the yellow mark on cam sprocket, but after turn engine over by hand the lines on belt don't line up with those on the sprockets ????


Im not gonna lie , I have a suspicion that my father in law who delivered the used replacement bottom end to me. might have sourced a 1.2 block...? I say so cos when he delivered the spark plugs weeks later they were the wrong ones, and I get the idea that he was still confused as to what engine was in the car...


anyway. I'm about to give up as I've made about 5 adjustments to the timing obviously each time its as much work as changing a cam belt.


unless somebody out there has experience timing the 1.4 8v vvt. and be willing to share. would save my life

 

[Andy Monty]

have you set the bottom of the engine to top dead centre before trying to time it? remember the bottom half can be locked out a full 180 degrees out of time to the top..

your really going to need to get the specialist tools now to ensure the engine is fully in time


if you look in our download section you can download the full fiat manual for the grande punto and burn to cd rom

https://www.fiatforum.com/downloads.php?do=download&downloadid=429

 

[tommyb23]

Cool Thanks Andy,


I agree by now, Im in need of the locking tools, or paying somebody else to do it.


Interesting to note that the locking tool kit is designed to lock the engine when all pistons are midway, some one should please confirm, it just looks that way to me from Andy's pics.


If you don't have the locking tools, you should probably use the TDC marks.


Im still baffled, last night I set the timing as described in the video, the engine fires right up and sounds smooth, no MIL. idle for 5 min. had a break and started again this time instant MIL .. This time not the crankshaft, camshaft correlation. thats gone. now its camshaft position sensor "A" circuit .


another note
Flywheel timing mark 0"

Crank is at this position with flywheel on 0"



want to thank everyone for their input, helped a lot, cheers


oh and is there a way I can ID a 1.2 cylinder block from a 1.4 Engine number will do? and is it stamped on the block somewhere. I should know right, I've had them both on hoist..

 

[Andy Monty]

Are you using the cam cover alignment tool? So when you fit the cam sensor after it lines up correctly?



As for the block does it have the correct oil galleys that line up with the o rings on the head ?

 

[tommyb23]

Are you using the cam cover alignment tool? So when you fit the cam sensor after it lines up correctly?



As for the block does it have the correct oil galleys that line up with the o rings on the head ?

No cam cover alignment tool unfortunately, still wish I could understand how it would be used , I thought there was only 1 way you could refit the cam sensor, and the cam cover, see that's the part of the tool kit that remains a mystery to me.. care to snap a pic with your phone of that instruction manual that came with your kit, specifically the cam cover aligning tool page.

As for the block, I wanna kick myself, for taking too many things for granted when re assembling, at the join of the head and block all I noted was that the gasket was correctly positioned and it had all the right holes, dropped the head on without looking if the gasket would match the headhttps://cdn-i.fiatforum.com/images/smilies/thumb_down.gif

 

[tommyb23]

Are you using the cam cover alignment tool? So when you fit the cam sensor after it lines up correctly?



As for the block does it have the correct oil galleys that line up with the o rings on the head ?

Hey Andy, have you perhaps a photo of the camshaft position with the cam locking plate installed, so I can copy the position of the lobes?
And is there and angle on that tab that fits into camshaft at flywheel side? If so a pic would be great just after u remove the locking tool so I can see the angle its at?


Buying the locking kit just isn't economical for me .

 

[Andy Monty]

I will get some pictures when I get home tonight from work

 

[tommyb23]

I will get some pictures when I get home tonight from work

Thanks man, much appreciated √

 

[Andy Monty]

Thanks man, much appreciated √

Here you go

 

[tommyb23]

Thanks Andy , was a great help in that i was able to copy the positions illustrated , so close, but i think its still a tooth out cos i get, not everytime, fault code about correlation. at least its drivable and im gonna take to fiat dealers tommorow.

Thanks

 

[mcvicar79]

Hi guys I've been reading this post and I'm getting very similar problems. Bid you get to the bottom of the issue and manage to get yours sorted?

 

[varesecrazy]

@Arceye

Anything of note in this thread?