General Engine swap question...

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General Engine swap question...

sabeltandcavia

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Heerlen, Netherlands.
For a while now I've been looking for a small car which can be modded for high power. My first thought was to buy a Mini and carry out an engine conversion, replacing the 1000cc lump with Honda's mighty 1.6l VTEC engine (160 Hp!). But then I took a look at the pricetag involved in such a project... Reality check: It would cost me 2500 pounds + an engine + a mini. I'm just a poor student, so that's not going to work. ;)

But then I got another idea: my mom owns a '91 Fiat Panda which she barely uses. I can use the car whenever I want, and do with it whatever I want. :D So I'm looking for more power now. I couldn't find any websites with good information about engine swaps for the Fiat Panda, so maybe there is someone here who can help me out?

I'm looking for 100+ Hp. I was thinking about the 1.3 or 1.4 liter turbo engine from the Uno. I think the size of the engine wouldn't be much of a problem (seen Minis with 2 liter engines!), but I can't afford to build a new subframe and the like. Anyone knows a relatively low-budget solution to get my Panda up to 100+ Hp? My budget would be around 1000 to 1500 pounds, but I also want to fit a sound system, a nicer interior and some good looking wheels...

Thanks for the help!

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John H

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I don't know if anyone has gone quite that far with a Panda...
Have you looked on these sites[?]

http://www.homepages.hetnet.nl/~pandaclub/index.html
http://www.carsfromitaly.com/fiat/index.html

I expect you've already tried the top one as it's in your part of the world, but I can't get the forum section to open up this morning - and even if I could I probably couldn't tell what was posted anyway: being a true Brit, with no other languages..

Anyway, if you could settle for a bit less power, and you could find a donor Lancia Y10 GTi you'd have a nice bag of bits which would fit, as they share the same floor pan :D
You'd get some decent brakes (+servo), decent front seats (the back ones don't locate on the seat back pegs IME), nicer wheels, and a 1300 with 78 bhp.
You'd probably need to transplant the fuel tank too due to the injection pump.

Don't go for the 1050 turbo, which on paper could give you the bhp you want - I understand there are no more pistons left to rebuild the engine ;)

Newer lumps which stand a chance of fitting are from "Fire" engined Puntos. But they expect electronic management, etc: there is another thread in one of these forums about that sort of transplant with an ex Cinq 1108, and the lack of fuel pump lobe on the cam.. I'm not sure if the distributor drive issue was ever resolved.

See also

http://mysite.freeserve.com/close_to_cracking_up/

regarding the Punto to Cinq transplant.


Regards

John H
 

Pete

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Can confirm that the dogs to drive the distributor are still there as before. However, the cam to drive the mechanical fuel pump has been deleted on the SPI crankshaft.
I have an Uno and a Punto cylinder head assy on the kitchen table at this time. In both cases the cam has not been formed.
Rgds.
 
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sabeltandcavia

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I've changed my mind about tuning the Panda. I remembered going on holiday in France with the car last summer. My girlfriend and I did close to 5000Km in 12 days (8 driving days) with an average fuel consumption of 4 to 5 liter per 100km. It was the cheapest holiday ever! So instead of going for max power, I think it would be wiser to go for better drivability, a little bit more power would be nice, as the car struggled up some of the hills in France (doing 25Mph uphill, getting passed by cars doing 50 or 60Mph) so I was wondering if the 1.1 liter engine could directly replace my 999cc engine. It only makes a 10 Hp difference, but it could just be the little extra power the car needs. Also how much would a 1.1 liter in reasonable condition cost me (including gearbox)?

Cheers!

ps. If I ever wanted to go faster, I know there's a turbo kit for Fiat's 1.1 liter FIRE engine, giving it 100+ Hp. [}:)]:D

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John H

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Might be worth seeing if you're getting the best out of what you've got:
Some of the carbed 1 litre FIREs go really well, _and_ pull up hills too :D My daughters CL runs rings around my CLX: The CL does 40 to 60 MPH in about 11 seconds in 4th gear ( 64 to 96 in KPH )

I understand the 1108 is mechanically the same, but I haven't converted one myself.
FWIW there are 1108 Pandas anyway..
 

HP

I was only doing 80...
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If the 1108 fits, so will the 1242 from the Punto 60 which gives lots more torque.

Pete.
Cinq sporting 1242cc
http://mysite.freeserve.com/close_to_cracking_up/
 
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sabeltandcavia

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Is the 1242 based on the same block as the 1108 or 999? Does it fit the standard engine mounts? it would be interesting to try and see if it fits :)

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John H

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Look at the site at the bottom of FIXITAGAINTOMORROWS post -
it gives some interesting pix of the punto "FIRE" into a Cinq replacing the 1108..

Now how many Litres/100km were you getting before [?] :D

Regards

John H
 

HP

I was only doing 80...
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1242 is identical to the 1108 apart from being 10mm taller due to having a longer stroke. When I did my swap I used the same engine mounts, just had to make the exhaust longer to clear under the sump. Everything else just bolts on. My cinq now does around 9 seconds 0-60 mph.

A 1242 with decent carbs and a good exhaust should give out 75 bhp. In only 700kg of car, it'll be pretty rapid, and still give you 45+ mpg or 6l/100km

Pete.
Cinq sporting 1242cc
http://mysite.freeserve.com/close_to_cracking_up/
 
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sabeltandcavia

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Great! Thanks for the fast replies guys! I've been looking around for info on engine swaps for the panda forever, but people here from the Dutch Panda club don't seem to take the idea very serious unfortunately... looks like I'll just have to look around now for a Punto engine! [8D] Isn't that the same engine the Pandamonium raceteam has fitted in their Panda?

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John H

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Yes, I believe it is, here's a chunk cut from their website:

1242cc Punto 60 (single-point injection) engine
Reprofiled cam
Gas-flowed head
Modified crankshaft
Machined flywheel
Tubular four-into-two-into-one exhaust manifold
Custom inlet manifold fitted with a pair of twin choke 36IDF Weber


If you do anything like that with yours I'd have a go at the brakes too :)

Servo at the very least :)


Regards

John H
 

Pete

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ATTN John H.
Further to my post above, re the cam to drive the mechanical fuel pump having been deleted from the SPI camshafts.

Today I picked up a cylinder head assy from a 1992, 999cc Uno with SPI. The cam shaft still has the cam to drive the mechanical fuel pump. They must have used the standard camshaft for a period after the introduction of SPI. How long and how many I cannot say.

Unlike the other Uno head that I have, where the hole through the casing for the fuel pump drive has not been drilled, on this one, there is a hole through but it has been blanked-off with one of the normal fuel pump gaskets and a specific cover plate.

Rgds, Pete.
 

John H

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Classic FIAT:
use the old bits 'till they run out, even if it is mid production run [:eek:)]

Still, my Pandas are unlikely to get engine swaps as one has a young driver, and the other Panda ("mine") will be used by my youngest in a few months time.

Nice to know though...

Perhaps I'll have to get another Panda :)
 
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sabeltandcavia

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Would the 1388CC block also fit? It says on the site of UAD Motorsports that it is derived from the same family of engines. I thought the biggest FIRE engines were the 1242s? http://www.uadmotorsports.co.uk/pages/features/tuning_guide.html is the 1388 they're mentioning the same engine as the 1.4l Turbo from the Uno? because if the 1388 will fit without problem, then the 1.4 turbo *should* also fit, right?

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wicee

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<blockquote id="quote"> face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sabeltandcavia
For a while now I've been looking for a small car which can be modded for high power. My first thought was to buy a Mini and carry out an engine conversion, replacing the 1000cc lump with Honda's mighty 1.6l VTEC engine (160 Hp!). But then I took a look at the pricetag involved in such a project... Reality check: It would cost me 2500 pounds + an engine + a mini. I'm just a poor student, so that's not going to work. :(

But then I got another idea: my mom owns a '91 Fiat Panda which she barely uses. I can use the car whenever I want, and do with it whatever I want. :D So I'm looking for more power now. I couldn't find any websites with good information about engine swaps for the Fiat Panda, so maybe there is someone here who can help me out?

I'm looking for 100+ Hp. I was thinking about the 1.3 or 1.4 liter turbo engine from the Uno. I think the size of the engine wouldn't be much of a problem (seen Minis with 2 liter engines!), but I can't afford to build a new subframe and the like. Anyone knows a relatively low-budget solution to get my Panda up to 100+ Hp? My budget would be around 1000 to 1500 pounds, but I also want to fit a sound system, a nicer interior and some good looking wheels...

Thanks for the help!

~~Nulla Tenaci Invia est Via~~
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Paul
 

wicee

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<blockquote id="quote"> face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sabeltandcavia
For a while now I've been looking for a small car which can be modded for high power. My first thought was to buy a Mini and carry out an engine conversion, replacing the 1000cc lump with Honda's mighty 1.6l VTEC engine (160 Hp!). But then I took a look at the pricetag involved in such a project... Reality check: It would cost me 2500 pounds + an engine + a mini. I'm just a poor student, so that's not going to work. :(

But then I got another idea: my mom owns a '91 Fiat Panda which she barely uses. I can use the car whenever I want, and do with it whatever I want. :D So I'm looking for more power now. I couldn't find any websites with good information about engine swaps for the Fiat Panda, so maybe there is someone here who can help me out?

I'm looking for 100+ Hp. I was thinking about the 1.3 or 1.4 liter turbo engine from the Uno. I think the size of the engine wouldn't be much of a problem (seen Minis with 2 liter engines!), but I can't afford to build a new subframe and the like. Anyone knows a relatively low-budget solution to get my Panda up to 100+ Hp? My budget would be around 1000 to 1500 pounds, but I also want to fit a sound system, a nicer interior and some good looking wheels...

Thanks for the help!

~~Nulla Tenaci Invia est Via~~
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"><font size="6"></font id="size6"><font color="black"></font id="black">

I have swoped a panda engine for some think a bit special and it is from a fiat 127 1300GT standard 80 bhp increased to 98 bhp with a new cam, [email protected] air filter and rebore to 1500. But that does not have to be the way you go. If you find a 1300 GT engine you will find it very easy to fit.for 1 the gearbox is the same and there,s no problems with the drive shafts or gear sector linkages. the only modification you will have to make are to the front engine mounting and the exhauts.
But I can tell you, with just 80 bhp and the 500kg for the car the panda will fly. If you would like picture of my the car just email. Good luck

Paul
 

steveyensen

Top beagle and Panda mod
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Oct 21, 2002
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Nottingham
I'd like to see it!!

[email protected] is the email address!

STEVE - the almost geriatric, NOS guzzling Panda owner and beagle fanatic ...
beaglerunc.gif
 

Brava GT

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Oct 11, 2003
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Go and visit this site for 1108cc tuning --> www.bielstein.com
I also have some associated experience -->www.fiatmania.tk
 
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sabeltandcavia

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<blockquote id="quote"> face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><font size="6"></font id="size6"><font color="black"></font id="black">

I have swoped a panda engine for some think a bit special and it is from a fiat 127 1300GT standard 80 bhp increased to 98 bhp with a new cam, [email protected] air filter and rebore to 1500. But that does not have to be the way you go. If you find a 1300 GT engine you will find it very easy to fit.for 1 the gearbox is the same and there,s no problems with the drive shafts or gear sector linkages. the only modification you will have to make are to the front engine mounting and the exhauts.
But I can tell you, with just 80 bhp and the 500kg for the car the panda will fly. If you would like picture of my the car just email. Good luck

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Sure, send me some pics! [email protected]

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