General Engine mounting

[Steffen Jensen]

Has somebody made a costum mounting for the 16V engine??
Need som pics or somthing to se how it can be done.

Im useing the crank pulley from a Grande Punto. There is rubber in it, and this eat some of the vibritions from the crank.
Then the drivebelt comes in contakt with the engine mounting.

Can anybody help??

 

[fingers99]

You need to talk to J333EVO (Aaron), kritip (Kristian) and Green16v. In thisthread, Green16v and Kritip talk about using the Sei/Cinq crank pulley. It's the alternator belt that's the issue, isn't it?

 

[GoBe]

There are 3 relativity simple solutions to the engine mount problem (listed in order of my preference)

1. Grab a pulley from the 1.1 8v, make up a new mounting plate for the TDC sensor
   This is probablly technically the hardest solution as you'll need to machine up a fairly complicated piece of metal to do it properly
   
2. Make a spacer piece for the engine mount so you push the engine towards the nearside wing a cm or so
   The only issue with this method is sourcing a lump of metal that's the right size, a jigsaw & drill is then needed to make the spacer. However this will put more strain on the 2 gearbox mounts.
   
3. Grind off a bit of the engine mount so the belt doesn't make contact with it
   The simplest method, just a grinder required but you will reduce the strength of the engine mount

 

[Steffen Jensen]

There are 3 relativity simple solutions to the engine mount problem (listed in order of my preference)

1. Grab a pulley from the 1.1 8v, make up a new mounting plate for the TDC sensor
   This is probablly technically the hardest solution as you'll need to machine up a fairly complicated piece of metal to do it properly
2. Make a spacer piece for the engine mount so you push the engine towards the nearside wing a cm or so
   The only issue with this method is sourcing a lump of metal that's the right size, a jigsaw & drill is then needed to make the spacer. However this will put more strain on the 2 gearbox mounts.
3. Grind off a bit of the engine mount so the belt doesn't make contact with it
   The simplest method, just a grinder required but you will reduce the strength of the engine mount

I was thinking about nr.3
But as you say, this reduce the strength.
Can I rebuild the strength buy welding som metal on the other side of the mounting??

 

[fingers99]

Not done it, but I'd think you'd be better either adding reinforcement at 90 degrees to the metal you've removed and/or cutting back and welding a plate in so that the section is shallower.

Looks like it's one of FIATs horrible pressed tin and spot weld constructions, so seam welding would help.

 

[randomizered]

4) Replace the oil pump for an 8v one. That has a different location for the crank sensor, so you can use the 8v pulley. It will all fit fine then. Make sure the pulley has the same tooth pattern as the belt!

5) Looking in ePER, there are two verion of the engine mount (i posted a thread a while back). There is the common one I see all the time, but also a different design, that IF its possible to fit, looks like it won't have this problem.

https://www.fiatforum.com/cinq-sei-technical/121447-do-you-know-your-engine-mounts.html?p=1268017




I went for option 1 as I was in a hurry. I just bolted it in place with a few pieces of scrap aluminium. Its not pretty, but it does the job


Kristian

 

[Brooky]

Im going for option four when i get another engine

 

[GoBe]

4 - I looked at this but it doesn't look like SuperFIRE and FIRE oil pumps are interchangeable

5 - As arc said that looks like a cinq mount it also catches on the alt belt

 

[Steffen Jensen]

4) Replace the oil pump for an 8v one. That has a different location for the crank sensor, so you can use the 8v pulley. It will all fit fine then. Make sure the pulley has the same tooth pattern as the belt!

5) Looking in ePER, there are two verion of the engine mount (i posted a thread a while back). There is the common one I see all the time, but also a different design, that IF its possible to fit, looks like it won't have this problem.

https://www.fiatforum.com/cinq-sei-technical/121447-do-you-know-your-engine-mounts.html?p=1268017




I went for option 1 as I was in a hurry. I just bolted it in place with a few pieces of scrap aluminium. Its not pretty, but it does the job


Kristian

You are not reading my Thread...
Im useing the crank pulley from a Grande Punto!
This reduce the stress in the crank, and there is a lot of stress at 9000rpm!

My problem is the engine mounting, can I use the original or should a costum one be made??

 

[randomizered]

4 - I looked at this but it doesn't look like SuperFIRE and FIRE oil pumps are interchangeable

well, its def been done with a punot oil pump anyway

https://www.fiatforum.com/cinq-sei-technical/143570-fiat-seicento-1-4-16v-118bhp-poland.html

Kristian

 

[GoBe]

'Oil pump from punto mk2 1.2 16v without clima'... so that'd be a SupreFIRE oil pump then but the useful info is that there's a long tdc sensor mount pump for the 16v

 

[randomizered]

You are not reading my Thread...
Im useing the crank pulley from a Grande Punto!

Sorry, I don't see it making much difference but if thats what you want to do.....is your pulley a 4v, 5v, or 6v belt?

They are wider than the 1.2 16v ones, that also don't fit, and i doubt you will be able to cut the mount enough to fit it. You will have to get a custom mount.


Kristian

 

[Steffen Jensen]

I use the belt fra the cinq on the wider pully...

 

[Brooky]

You are not reading my Thread...
Im useing the crank pulley from a Grande Punto!
This reduce the stress in the crank, and there is a lot of stress at 9000rpm!

My problem is the engine mounting, can I use the original or should a costum one be made??

But have you compared the weights of the two pulleys??

Ill be revving to 8500/9000 and using the 1108 pulley.

 

[fingers99]

MMmmm. At 9000rpm there's also a lot of stress on the rods. Is'nt that engine red lined at 6000?

 

[Brooky]

Dunno what steff's doing but ill be doing some work to my rods. Possible lightening, polishing and shot peening, and balancing

 

[randomizered]

1368 16v stock rev limit is 7000 rpm on the Panda 100hp. Its the same wether in Sport mode on non Sport mode. I run mine up to 7200rpm on stock internals.

mpi sei pulley i have is about 1/3 the weight of the 1368!!! So a far better option. I think you will have no problem running to 9000rpm at all with this pulley. They are balanced.

Kristian

 

[Steffen Jensen]

But have you compared the weights of the two pulleys??

Ill be revving to 8500/9000 and using the 1108 pulley.

I know the 1108 pully is lighter..
But done is done, im useing this pully, and the problem is the mounting.

The pully is like this one:

As you can se on this pics, the belt is a lot smaller then the pully...
Is that okay, in high rpm??

 

[randomizered]

That pulley will hit and rub the wheel arch liner, adn it may even contact the wheel, depending what wheels you have. Just a pointer.

 

[fingers99]

Dunno what steff's doing but ill be doing some work to my rods. Possible lightening, polishing and shot peening, and balancing

Yeah, but you've got nice, thick, short 1108 rods and a way lower piston speed for a given rpm. If someone puts the 1.4 stroke up, I'll do the calcs, but at 9000 I'd not give the pistons or rods long at all. Time to ring Carillo?