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Technical Eleganza 2010 disc brake problems again
- Thread starter oldguy
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Technical Eleganza 2010 disc brake problems again
Good news.
Did they adjust the handbrake ?
If you get that working again you can take the pressure off the brake pedal when stationary
Good news.
Did they adjust the handbrake ?
If you get that working again you can take the pressure off the brake pedal when stationary
Yes handbrake adjusted
Mr Panda Man
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Hi Guys, I have a Fiat Panda myself. Its a 2010 1.2 and the front end is a little noisy.
Now I understand that it is the brakes, as clearly I can hear them grinding, I have not lost, yet, the ability to stop but it does sound like somebody is sharpening a Plough with a nice course sharpening stone, if you understand the sound. This sound is heavy when under 10 Mph and slowing down, and under 30 mph its there but not as loud, its more like an annoying child screaming when under 10 mph, and at 30 its more, them sitting with headphones on where you can just hear the sounds coming from their headphones.
I have taken off the offside wheel and felt, with my fingers only, the disc and the outside seems good and a little wear, however the back side has about 5 mm of wear with a 5 mm ridge on the edge of the disc. If i could put a picture of it in here I would. Think of an L as the disc and the base of the L is about 5mm high and the body of the L is smooth.
I have not taken off the near side wheel to see how bad that is but I am expecting it to be the same.
I do not have steering wheel wobble, or brake peddle movement when braking.
What I am asking is this. I will be replacing the Front Disc's and brake pads, but I do not know exactly how the disc's come off. On one of my old cars, many years ago, I took it to a garage and was told the disc's themselves had to be pressed off, much bigger car, and as Disc removal is the only thing I have never needed to do, or tried, how does one remove the disc's on the 2010 Fiat Panda. If somebody has a Video, or knows where to find one, as I have looked, I would really appreciate the help.
Sorry if this is a long post but I want to try and give you guys as much information as possible so you know where I am at. I have already seen the Disc's and Pads, which are quality and not E-Bay knock off's.
I have done only 48K miles from new which I think is good but i did get it second hand from a dealer, who you just cannot trust as I did find out that they did a lot of work fixing the far before selling it to me, like dents in the doors and other damage and resprays. I have had it 5 years without any problems except a noise from a calliper. which the MOT guy said just needs taking off and cleaning/re-greasing.
I was told Pandas are a great car to have as long as you catch any rust first, and mine looks great and feels great, its just that grind.
I was thinking of taking it to a garage to do, but I know I could do this myself if I am able to remove the disc.
Any advice would be grateful
Now I understand that it is the brakes, as clearly I can hear them grinding, I have not lost, yet, the ability to stop but it does sound like somebody is sharpening a Plough with a nice course sharpening stone, if you understand the sound. This sound is heavy when under 10 Mph and slowing down, and under 30 mph its there but not as loud, its more like an annoying child screaming when under 10 mph, and at 30 its more, them sitting with headphones on where you can just hear the sounds coming from their headphones.
I have taken off the offside wheel and felt, with my fingers only, the disc and the outside seems good and a little wear, however the back side has about 5 mm of wear with a 5 mm ridge on the edge of the disc. If i could put a picture of it in here I would. Think of an L as the disc and the base of the L is about 5mm high and the body of the L is smooth.
I have not taken off the near side wheel to see how bad that is but I am expecting it to be the same.
I do not have steering wheel wobble, or brake peddle movement when braking.
What I am asking is this. I will be replacing the Front Disc's and brake pads, but I do not know exactly how the disc's come off. On one of my old cars, many years ago, I took it to a garage and was told the disc's themselves had to be pressed off, much bigger car, and as Disc removal is the only thing I have never needed to do, or tried, how does one remove the disc's on the 2010 Fiat Panda. If somebody has a Video, or knows where to find one, as I have looked, I would really appreciate the help.
Sorry if this is a long post but I want to try and give you guys as much information as possible so you know where I am at. I have already seen the Disc's and Pads, which are quality and not E-Bay knock off's.
I have done only 48K miles from new which I think is good but i did get it second hand from a dealer, who you just cannot trust as I did find out that they did a lot of work fixing the far before selling it to me, like dents in the doors and other damage and resprays. I have had it 5 years without any problems except a noise from a calliper. which the MOT guy said just needs taking off and cleaning/re-greasing.
I was told Pandas are a great car to have as long as you catch any rust first, and mine looks great and feels great, its just that grind.
I was thinking of taking it to a garage to do, but I know I could do this myself if I am able to remove the disc.
Any advice would be grateful
This post tells you eveything you need to know.
Your discs & pads are almost certainly scrap.
The good news is that on a 1.2 Panda, replacing them is about as cheap and easy as it gets.
Decent aftermarket parts can be had for about the price of a tank of fuel; the Pagid ones from ECP are as good as any.
Discs just pull off after removing the two locating pins (and the reaction frames, of course).
Only thing to be careful with is undoing the bolts, particularly the ones securing the reaction frames; they may well be corroded in, and if you break one, it will spoil your day.
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I was just rereading this thread and marveling yet again at the depth and diversity of knowledge held by members of this forum and the willingness of contributors to offer help and advice.
It also occurs to me to say that, in relation to the original poster's problem, whilst there are many possibilities - as people have demonstrated here - I've found most often either the disc will be found to have excess run out (ie it is wobbling) or it will be of uneven thickness due to wear.
Excess run out will often be due to a poor quality disc casting warping due to heat and it's inability to retain shape when it cools - as people have said, DON'T hold your foot on the brake pedal after hard braking, such as pulling up at a roundabout on a dual carriageway for instance or after descending a long hill, as this will cause the disc to shed heat very unevenly. Holding on the pedal around town in slow speed traffic is probably less problematic as the discs are unlikely to get "super hot" - it's the temperature difference that does the damage, but I would still encourage the use of the hand brake rather than holding on the pedal (just another reason I don't like "hill hold!) However it's also possible the disc may have been poorly fitted with dirt trapped between it and the hub. Providing your caliper is free to move on it's locating pins, you'll typically find a warped disc will not cause problems at slow speeds (maybe up to 25mph or so, depending on how bad the warp is) because the caliper will oscillate sideways with the warp, but will cause vibration when braking from higher speeds because the caliper won't be able to oscillate fast enough to follow the "wobbling" disc.
If your disc/s are of uneven thickness then the effect will often be a pulsing of the pedal in time with the grabbing and it will be worst at slow to medium speeds. Possibly the pedal pulsing will not be so bad at higher speeds as the pads and pistons wont be able to move in and out fast enough to follow the varying disc thickness.
Both of these situations will be exacerbated by a caliper which is either stiff or seized on it's sliders.
With reference to Mr Panda Man's post I've often seen this sort of complaint when rust has been allowed to build up on the outer diameter and near the hub. The surface of the disc is kept clean by the pad's action against it but the corrosion can really build up just outside the "swept" area. Then the metal backing of the pad, which usually extends slightly beyond the friction material, can rub up against this rusty build up - especially if the friction material is well worn so "thin" - and make a really impressive amount of noise. It's very easy to simply hold the end of something like a screwdriver against the rusty bits and rotate the disc every time you do a service which will chip away these rusty bits. The diligent home mechanic will have the time to do this but a chap earning his bonus on how quickly he does the job? maybe less likely?
It occurs to me that a lot of this sort of "stuff" can largely be eliminated by good driving practices and regular attentive maintenance. Also buy your parts from trusted sources like S4p (Ho Hum, he's promoting them again!) or a local trade factor supplying the local trade around your area.
It also occurs to me to say that, in relation to the original poster's problem, whilst there are many possibilities - as people have demonstrated here - I've found most often either the disc will be found to have excess run out (ie it is wobbling) or it will be of uneven thickness due to wear.
Excess run out will often be due to a poor quality disc casting warping due to heat and it's inability to retain shape when it cools - as people have said, DON'T hold your foot on the brake pedal after hard braking, such as pulling up at a roundabout on a dual carriageway for instance or after descending a long hill, as this will cause the disc to shed heat very unevenly. Holding on the pedal around town in slow speed traffic is probably less problematic as the discs are unlikely to get "super hot" - it's the temperature difference that does the damage, but I would still encourage the use of the hand brake rather than holding on the pedal (just another reason I don't like "hill hold!) However it's also possible the disc may have been poorly fitted with dirt trapped between it and the hub. Providing your caliper is free to move on it's locating pins, you'll typically find a warped disc will not cause problems at slow speeds (maybe up to 25mph or so, depending on how bad the warp is) because the caliper will oscillate sideways with the warp, but will cause vibration when braking from higher speeds because the caliper won't be able to oscillate fast enough to follow the "wobbling" disc.
If your disc/s are of uneven thickness then the effect will often be a pulsing of the pedal in time with the grabbing and it will be worst at slow to medium speeds. Possibly the pedal pulsing will not be so bad at higher speeds as the pads and pistons wont be able to move in and out fast enough to follow the varying disc thickness.
Both of these situations will be exacerbated by a caliper which is either stiff or seized on it's sliders.
With reference to Mr Panda Man's post I've often seen this sort of complaint when rust has been allowed to build up on the outer diameter and near the hub. The surface of the disc is kept clean by the pad's action against it but the corrosion can really build up just outside the "swept" area. Then the metal backing of the pad, which usually extends slightly beyond the friction material, can rub up against this rusty build up - especially if the friction material is well worn so "thin" - and make a really impressive amount of noise. It's very easy to simply hold the end of something like a screwdriver against the rusty bits and rotate the disc every time you do a service which will chip away these rusty bits. The diligent home mechanic will have the time to do this but a chap earning his bonus on how quickly he does the job? maybe less likely?
It occurs to me that a lot of this sort of "stuff" can largely be eliminated by good driving practices and regular attentive maintenance. Also buy your parts from trusted sources like S4p (Ho Hum, he's promoting them again!) or a local trade factor supplying the local trade around your area.
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I just came across this really excellent video about it:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3JUPt4upxk
Here's another which may be of interest regarding remedial possibilities:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5Mj_G5LIz8
A wee PS :- My local "preferred" Factor - SRS Autoparts now seems to be part of the NAPA group and I notice quite quite an expansion of "stuff" available. They haven't yet supplied me with a NAPA branded part but it's a very well respected name I got to know from my visits across "the pond" and I'd accept them with out hesitation.
A wee PS :- My local "preferred" Factor - SRS Autoparts now seems to be part of the NAPA group and I notice quite quite an expansion of "stuff" available. They haven't yet supplied me with a NAPA branded part but it's a very well respected name I got to know from my visits across "the pond" and I'd accept them with out hesitation.
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There shouldn't be much wear at 48K
The wear on the disc should be even if the callipers are sliding freely and pads fitted correctly
shouldn't be making a grinding sound.
Front discs are easy DIY on the Panda. But its important to understand why its wearing unevenly and making a noise
you need 5 post before you can post an image
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A Panda 169 that's done just 48K will have almost certainly been used mostly (1) for town use and (2) left standing for days or more at a time.
(1) Wears the brakes much faster than distance driving.
(2) Rusts the brake surface which gets rubbed off the next time its used.
Both lead to brakes being well worn out. The noise is probably a pad backing plate(s) fouling the disc wear lip.
Brembo (OE Spec or better) pads and discs
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/38409768...n:169_&hash=item596e019dc8:g:hZwAAOSwZsRgUMiw
Ferrodo are a bit more and you'll need to confirm is these fir the 169.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292784430465?hash=item442b4fdd81:g:H8YAAOSwd49bu3aI
Yobbo brand save £20 so might as well get the good stuff
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202034330166?hash=item2f0a2f3a36:g:6GQAAOSwubRXK0sa
(1) Wears the brakes much faster than distance driving.
(2) Rusts the brake surface which gets rubbed off the next time its used.
Both lead to brakes being well worn out. The noise is probably a pad backing plate(s) fouling the disc wear lip.
Brembo (OE Spec or better) pads and discs
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/38409768...n:169_&hash=item596e019dc8:g:hZwAAOSwZsRgUMiw
Ferrodo are a bit more and you'll need to confirm is these fir the 169.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292784430465?hash=item442b4fdd81:g:H8YAAOSwd49bu3aI
Yobbo brand save £20 so might as well get the good stuff
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202034330166?hash=item2f0a2f3a36:g:6GQAAOSwubRXK0sa
This post contains affiliate links which may earn a commission at no additional cost to you.
Mr Panda Man has 5x the wear on the inside side of disc than the outside
My three pandas have all wear evenly either side
Surly the reason needs investigating before throwing some new pads and discs on ???
My three pandas have all wear evenly either side
Surly the reason needs investigating before throwing some new pads and discs on ???
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Hit the nail on the head here. Calipers must be free to slide left to right or right to left as seen from above. Any resistance will result i uneven wear. Any parts that cause the resistance to sliding are best replaced IMO as once they start to stick they then wear at the point of resistance and will continue to do so thereafter. A good engineer will be able to refurbish some parts allowing wear is not too great. As the parts are not expensive I still reckon replacement and the knowledge the problem is cured is worth the cost. Its also worth checking the car on a rolling road to be sure exactly what is going on. My MOT man thinks I am mad as I am not happy unless both side have virtually equal readings. MOT tests seem to me to be remarkably slack in the tolerance in brake force allowed across axles.
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Possibly someone changing only 1 out of two pads previously???
Yes it looks like imbalanced pad pressure giving strange wear..
Lack of servicing would be well up my list of culprits
Everything will be apart for a disc and pads swap.. so basic sliding properties should be restored.
Lack of servicing would be well up my list of culprits
Everything will be apart for a disc and pads swap.. so basic sliding properties should be restored.
I dont like guessing
but I suspect when the old pad come out. They will need prying out because the groove they should slide in has shrunk due to a build up of corrosion
Brakes are fairly easy DIY. However everything has to 100%. Nothing should be tight or need tapping to fit.
They nearly always need wire brushing. Its also not uncommon for a drip of paint on the new pads needs filing off before fitting
but I suspect when the old pad come out. They will need prying out because the groove they should slide in has shrunk due to a build up of corrosion
Brakes are fairly easy DIY. However everything has to 100%. Nothing should be tight or need tapping to fit.
They nearly always need wire brushing. Its also not uncommon for a drip of paint on the new pads needs filing off before fitting
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The sliding pins on one of my rear brakes were really stiff, yet disc and pad wear were normal. I cleaned them up and red greased the sliders but was surprised it had not chewed the disc.
Mr Panda Man
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:slayer:
Spot on with the advice, I also found this nice site, club.autodoc.co.uk, If you watch how he takes things off it tells you torque Wrench settings and so on. Was really easy.
As for the Pads and Disc's well they will be dropped off at the nearest scrap yard, or whom ever will take them, tip normally, but I had damage to the Off side disc, even though the pads themselves were still good for a few thousand miles, but near side was a total right off. Pad was definitely gone, down to metal, but only one side as the other side was still half a pad, compared to new pads. Still I binned everything as they looked as though they had been changed before once I took off the disc's.
I followed all instructions on this Video, even the part where they use Copper ease (spray) to cover the mountain for the disc' themselves. I made sure that everything had some applied and it was a even coat. Popped on the new disc's, used the wheel nuts to balance up the Disc for testing then used the 2 (4 in total for both sides) and made sure the Bolts were in place and holding the disc in the correct place. As they only go up to 10 Nm it was nothing much.
Put the wheels on and tightened them up to corrects torque then took the car for a spin. I know I will have to keep an eye on the disc's as these seem to be like butter compared to all the other cars I have had.
Question, I have changed Brake pads on many cars and motorbikes in the past, but I have never had this before.
Under 50 Mph it seems the cars disc's stay cool and there isn't an issue, but over 60 Mph and the discs seemed to be burning. I am sure that it was just because it was New Discs and New Pads, but has anybody else had this themselves?
Maybe its just the normal on the disc's and pad's as they are new, and I know you do need to take your time as you can destroy them if you act like an ass. The car is in very good condition for a 2010 with just 46k on the clock. I do not even think I have done 2K in the last 15 months either.
:slayer:
Spot on with the advice, I also found this nice site, club.autodoc.co.uk, If you watch how he takes things off it tells you torque Wrench settings and so on. Was really easy.
As for the Pads and Disc's well they will be dropped off at the nearest scrap yard, or whom ever will take them, tip normally, but I had damage to the Off side disc, even though the pads themselves were still good for a few thousand miles, but near side was a total right off. Pad was definitely gone, down to metal, but only one side as the other side was still half a pad, compared to new pads. Still I binned everything as they looked as though they had been changed before once I took off the disc's.
I followed all instructions on this Video, even the part where they use Copper ease (spray) to cover the mountain for the disc' themselves. I made sure that everything had some applied and it was a even coat. Popped on the new disc's, used the wheel nuts to balance up the Disc for testing then used the 2 (4 in total for both sides) and made sure the Bolts were in place and holding the disc in the correct place. As they only go up to 10 Nm it was nothing much.
Put the wheels on and tightened them up to corrects torque then took the car for a spin. I know I will have to keep an eye on the disc's as these seem to be like butter compared to all the other cars I have had.
Question, I have changed Brake pads on many cars and motorbikes in the past, but I have never had this before.
Under 50 Mph it seems the cars disc's stay cool and there isn't an issue, but over 60 Mph and the discs seemed to be burning. I am sure that it was just because it was New Discs and New Pads, but has anybody else had this themselves?
Maybe its just the normal on the disc's and pad's as they are new, and I know you do need to take your time as you can destroy them if you act like an ass. The car is in very good condition for a 2010 with just 46k on the clock. I do not even think I have done 2K in the last 15 months either.
Disc should not get hot unless you are braking
If you drive down the road at 70 mph and let your foot off the accelerator and wait for the car to slow to a stop. If everything is okay the discs are stone cold.
If this is not the case then it needs fixing before they get damaged
The pad should be a nice loose fit. Its quite common for this to require a Good wire brushing. I have had to file some paint from pads before now.
the sliders should err slide freely
the pistons should push back smoothly
some new discs are covered in a silver paint. This will smell when being burnt off. But only while braking
If you drive down the road at 70 mph and let your foot off the accelerator and wait for the car to slow to a stop. If everything is okay the discs are stone cold.
If this is not the case then it needs fixing before they get damaged
The pad should be a nice loose fit. Its quite common for this to require a Good wire brushing. I have had to file some paint from pads before now.
the sliders should err slide freely
the pistons should push back smoothly
some new discs are covered in a silver paint. This will smell when being burnt off. But only while braking
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I had a Punto HGT where a front brake pistons seized up. I managed to get the car home by avoiding the brake pedal - and thumping the caliper with a block of wood after every time I had to use the brakes. The caliper had to be rebuilt. It's a different brake to the Panda but when the brakes are getting and the mechanical stuff is correct, the answer is usually a stuck caliper piston. However a degraded brake hose can have the lining separate and become a non-return valve..
With the Panda's single pin floating caliper design, it's most unusual to get a stuck piston. However, having a pad stick in the reaction frame is very common; if just one side sticks, you'll have one unevenly and excessively worn and warped pad; the others will look normal.
All covered in this thread.
All covered in this thread.
