Technical Eleganza 2010 disc brake problems again

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Technical Eleganza 2010 disc brake problems again

oldguy

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Bought the car new in 2010, its now covered 61000 miles its already in its life had discs replaced twice making that three sets including the originals.
It has today been checked as the braking at the front is noisy and jerky and I am told the disc are warped.
I have owned around 50 cars since starting driving at 17 various brands and have never had this type of brake trouble on this scale.
Are Fiat Pandas prone to this problem ?
Any advice would be appreciated.
 
A wobbling disc will warp. You need to check the disc mounting face on the hub for running out of true. Also use decent quality parts. There is a lot cheap carp on eBay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4JWLNw_fD8

Also check the caliper is moving correctly as rubbing pads will warp the disc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMp5G9J1P48

The Panda 1.2 has quite small solid discs which can be worked hard if you really push the car. Stopping with hot discs causes warping because the disc cools more slowly under the brake pads. The 100HP front brakes are bigger with vented discs.
 
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Bought the car new in 2010, its now covered 61000 miles its already in its life had discs replaced twice making that three sets including the originals.
It has today been checked as the braking at the front is noisy and jerky and I am told the disc are warped.
I have owned around 50 cars since starting driving at 17 various brands and have never had this type of brake trouble on this scale.
Are Fiat Pandas prone to this problem ?
Any advice would be appreciated.


Warping is normally due to heat..and pressure

Lots of 500's seem to fail MOT's on discs at 20k

Others get 50+k to a set

My panda only wore through 1 set in @50k

The replacements were half worn when sold at 14years and 93k

Are yours all failing through 'run.out'?
 
Warping is normally due to heat..and pressure

Lots of 500's seem to fail MOT's on discs at 20k

Others get 50+k to a set

My panda only wore through 1 set in @50k

The replacements were half worn when sold at 14years and 93k

Are yours all failing through 'run.out'?
What is run out please
All the replacements have been fitted by garages
 
stand on the brakes once and leave the foot on the brake pedal for a few seconds is enough to warp any cars discs. As will a sticking brake over time

aggressive pads will also wear them down quicker

I have never had to change the discs on any of my fiats Punto or Panda

Pads yes. But even then not often.

I do live in a flat area

Hills and City driving will reduce their life.

But not as much as speeding up to speed hump or junction and then stomping on the middle pedal.
 
There is no unusual movement with the break pedal or pull off line with steering
Just strong vibration at speeds around 50 when braking and jurking at very low speed
Ie 10mph as if brake pedal was being pumped
 
There is no unusual movement with the break pedal or pull off line with steering
Just strong vibration at speeds around 50 when braking and jurking at very low speed
Ie 10mph as if brake pedal was being pumped

felt through the pedal ? Variation in front disk thickness normally is ?
easy to confirm with a micrometers

when you had it tested what was the results when on the brake rollers ?

any vibration under braking at the steering wheel ?

any suspension noises ?

rear suspension Bush okay ?

Tyres okay. Round ? even wear ? no sidewall bulges ?

wheel nuts tight ?

are you sure the rears are okay ?

and many more possibilities.
 
felt through the pedal ? Variation in front disk thickness normally is ?
easy to confirm with a micrometers

when you had it tested what was the results when on the brake rollers ?

any vibration under braking at the steering wheel ?

any suspension noises ?

rear suspension Bush okay ?

Tyres okay. Round ? even wear ? no sidewall bulges ?

wheel nuts tight ?

are you sure the rears are okay ?

and many more possibilities.

Thanks for reply I am getting a little confused do you mean that the disc warping could have been caused by a rear suspension bush ?

As regards testing I do not know if it was on a rolling road I had a brake check and was informed about warped discs.
 
I had a motorcycle with 'warped discs' when tested on the rolling brake tester, I checked with a DTI and the disc was fine, it was the ABS cutting in that gave the pulse readings on the brake test, although a garage should know this.

I would take the wheels off and check the caliper is mounted correctly and the sliding pins are free.
 
Thanks for reply I am getting a little confused do you mean that the disc warping could have been caused by a rear suspension bush ?

As regards testing I do not know if it was on a rolling road I had a brake check and was informed about warped discs.

front suspension arm rear Bush. Can cause judder or pull to one side

is it felt through the steering or brake pedal ?
 
I've had one car that went through front discs in 20K miles due to the pedal pulsing. The problem was caused by the hub surface (which carries the disc) not running true. Diagnosed with a dial indicator.

The "runout" was not enough to feel with new discs but the uneven friction heating caused them to warp over time.

Also had it on a classic motorbike. That was fixed with shims because the wheel could not be replaced.
 
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Are Fiat Pandas prone to this problem ?

the question is. Is this a problem.

The answer is No.

To find out whats wrong we need as much information as possible

"front is noisy and jerky"

From this end of the computer a noisy could mean anything. Video and photos are often easier than writing an essay. Is it just felt as uneven braking, or is felt through the pedal and or steering otherwise every part that spins or connected to anything that spins including tyres and wheels or part of the braking system and ABS could be at fault
 
I agree with Dave McT. Could be a bent wheel. Jack the wheel of the floor and get some one to spin it while you look closely to see if there is any damage. also check the tyres. Spotting warped discs requires a dial gauge. You can make something that does the same job with a few bits of wood and a nail. If you knock a nail through apiece of wood and fix this vertically so it will stand up vertically at brake disc height you can set the nail point against the brake disc at 90 degrees to the disc face. If you then rotate the wheel you can see if the tip stays in contact with the disc or moves away or towards the disc as you turn it. This will identify warped discs and faulty discs with high spots which cause the judder when braking. If the disc has visible movement side to side or high spots there is a problem.Check that the surface it fixes against is clean and not distorted in any way with the wood and nail or a dial gauge before fitting new discs and rectify any issues.

In order to avoid overheating fit original manufacturer brake pads from a supplier such as shop4parts recommended on here or from Fiat or a Ferodo dealer. There are substantial differences in brake pads and Ferodo web site is a good place to see how extreme these can be!!

What you describe is classic symptoms of warped brake discs, Discs can warp after a single rapid stop or over a long period for several reasons including poor quality parts and materials as well as in use.

Brake discs these days are not designed to last as they once were and its not unusual to have to change discs and pads together. I always do this as it seems to be false economy to do one and then risk getting caught out by the other....

Fiats are originally often fitted with Ferodo discs which are high quality brake manufacturers and its worth sticking with the right brand. There are many others around that are mostly OK but of these I can only personally vouch for Brembo and BluePrint.com which are made in Germany. Both these brands do parts for Pandas at reasonable prices. If in doubt get a decent garage to check the system out. Panda brakes should last 30 - 50000 miles in normal and even brisk use. If the car is aging cet the brake calipers checked and ensure they are not binding slightly as this will overheat the brakes and cause the discs to warp again. A proper overhaul of the whole system is not major work and if the whole system is changed £250 shoudl see it done once and for all. Most issues will cost considerably less than this. Hope this adds something to the sound advice given already by others.
 
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Bent wheels can look fine from the outside. Jack up the car and look from under the car as that is the side where the rims usually get bent.

there no point in keep guessing

We haven't enough information

We dont know whether there is any feed back on the brake pedal

we dont know whether there is any feed back on the steering

We know there is a noise but not what it sounds like

Without more information we are in the dark
 
The car has been repaired today, brakes fully stripped and cleaned new discs and pads fitted.
The hubs and associated components checked for correct alignment etc and found ok.
Drives now perfectly again I am hoping all remains so, thanks all for your kind advice.
As a foot note can anyone tell me the torque setting for the wheel nuts on the alloy wheels please.
 
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