Technical electrical or else !!!

[Galilio_Mad]

hello everyone

my 93 1.6 i.e, always suffered a sudden shutdown of the engine, but it happened every couple of month and it would start again from the first key turn but recently it would take her 5 minutes at least to start again.

this always happened after stopping at red lights traffic jams or driving very very slowly for a long time, and it only happens when my temp dial shows 90c.

once i managed to push it to an empty space and it was late and quite so i ttok a look under the bonnet, i tested for a spark from the coil pack outlet and there was no spark, not even a hint, when it started again i re-tested and the spark was just fine, that day the car died 7 times in 3 hours of traffic jams.

my question : should my only concern be the coil pack ? could this be a faulty relay or resistnat or something like that ??

sorry i wrote too much, but the problem became very serious, i cant drive without worrying about what will i do if it just died on me.

thanks in advance, really appreciate the help

 

[maddogmorg]

crank position sensor or similar? porter manual shows a TDC sensor in the electrical diagram. don't really know but i'm sure people with similar problems usually have a position sensor fault?

 

[svcglobal]

Do not want to discourage you but seems to be the injection module.
Try to borrow one from a friend, just to be sure.
That happened to my car, a little different issue and cured with new ECU, about 200 euros, go figure.

 

[a73uk]

I had an intermitant no spark situation on my 93 Tempra 2.0i.e. which turned out to be the distributor.

 

[Galilio_Mad]

actually in the last 2 years i changed the throttle body, ECU, Lambda Sensor
the car gets better for a day or 2 then it all goes back to thw way it was

my only concern now is that there`s no spark coming out of the the coil pack itself when the car dies

so, does the coil pack work independently or is it controlled by something else ?

i have the older setup, Bosch MA 1.7, Digiplex2+Distributor+coil pack

the problem only occurs after a 2-3 hours of traffic jams or driving very very slowly, other than that the car works perfectly fine, sounds fine

one other thing, dunno if it`s related, from cold start the engine noise is soft and quite like any other car, as it gets hotter the noises become more louder and erratic, and the rpm tends to drop 200rpm`s and goes back in like half a second, and when the temp reaches 90c and stays there for a while ( like in a traffic jam ) the hustle starts ( erratic idle, loud noise, poor acceleration ) and when it cools down a little it gets a little better.

sorry again for writing that long, but the problem started to occur more frequently than i used to, you cant imagine pushing the car to the side of the road in the middle of a traffic jam at 2pm

thanks everybody, appreciate the help

 

[svcglobal]

You got different setup, with Digiplex ignition, coil and distributor. Mine is Bosch MonoMotronic with multiple coil without distributor.

Anyway, did you already tried to change the rotor (inside distributor)?
A microscopic carbonized path way in the rotor molded Bakelite body can bypass the spark energy to ground. Another good suggestion is that a73uk wrote above, problem in the distributor cap, like the one of the rotor.

 

[bluejohn125]

The temperature sensor on the back of the engine can sometimes fail, this can confuse the engine management..... Easy and cheap to replace.

 

[20vturbo]

sounds like the coil is overheating,as you have said it happens with the engine hot,then when you wait for a while it restrarts.

i would be changing the coil first mate.

 

[Galilio_Mad]

sounds like the coil is overheating,as you have said it happens with the engine hot,then when you wait for a while it restrarts.

i would be changing the coil first mate.

Finally

i did suspect that but i wanted to make sure that there`s no connections prior to the coil that could disrupt the power supply to the coil, like a relay or something.

 

[Mohamad]

Check that the distributor cap is fixed in his place

 

[Galilio_Mad]

replaced the coil pack, didn`t make much of a difference in symptoms but no engine shutdown

and for the first time in 4 years since i had this car, disconnecting lambda sensor actually made a difference in idle, engine response and hard acceleration
before, disconnecting the sensor never made any difference in any way

now i`m driving with the sensor disconnected and thank god, the car is much better only with a painful increase in fuel consmuption :bang:

thanks everyone for your help , thanks ( 20vturbo )

 

[Galilio_Mad]

hey everybody

sorry to bring this up again, but unfortunatlly the problem is still there

the car started dying again sometime after changing the coil , and the shutdown occurs more frequent now, it could take 20-30 min of idling when hot or driving in a traffic jam for the engine to just die.

i did replace my TDC sensor, the engine running is a little better but will cut off as described

i tried to find some garage or workshop with a diagnostics machine, no luck as my injection module is " obselete " in the mechanics openion )

i started testing everytime it cuts off, attached the second coil to the battery base as a fast testing way, still no luck

again, there`s no spark coming out of the coil at all for a couple of minutes, when the spark decides to come back it`s weak and yellowish, after another couple of minutes it`s healthy blue and the car starts again, so i`ve ruled out the coil as the cause

what could this be, its difinetly an electrical problem as the fuel is delivered and sprayed
could it be a faulty Digiplex unit ? is there a way to test that

any ideas are welcome, i`m open to try as the problem starts to really get on my nerves

 

[a73uk]

I had an intermitant no spark situation on my 93 Tempra 2.0i.e. which turned out to be the distributor.

As I said, that!

The wire from the pickup can break down or rub on the underside of the distributor plate & earth intermitently.

Its easy to check for rubbing, you just take the 2 screws out the side of the distributor (that hold the cap spring clips) & slide the plate off the shaft, you can then see the pick up & wire inside... you could even do it in situ.

Not sure how you`d check the actual pickup, maybe connecting a test lamp to the output & spin the engine on the starter, but as you say, its intermitant, so it may not show..

I`m assuming you`ve checked all the earths & connections, including the ECU ones.

 

[Galilio_Mad]

I`m assuming you`ve checked all the earths & connections, including the ECU ones.

thanks for your reply

actually i did test all wiring and connections many many times, everything seems ok, wiring condition is good, no peels or cuts, also all the plugs is clean and intact

as for your suggestion regarding the distributor, i`ve ruled it out along time ago, coz when the engine cuts off there`s no spark coming out of the coil itself, i check for spark from the cable connecting the coil to the distributor
and by the way, i tried 3 sets cables ( my orig + a new one + perfectly working set from a friend`s car )

my guess is the problem is pre-coil and electric related, so is there a way to test the Digiplex module for faults or erratic behavior ??

is there any way that i can test the components of my injection/ignition systems ? maybe resistance readings or something like that

and if anyone could help, i`m thinking of buying a scanner to test this, i have couple of friends with bosch mono-motronic system and willing to share the price with me, is there some good/cheap device ?? or at least the name of the connection interface so i can look it up

many many thanks, appreciate you help

 

[(CZ)enda]

so is there a way to test the Digiplex module for faults or erratic behavior ??

Once upon a time, there was a great page in Italian describing Digiplex and methods used to check it. Unfortunately, some 2 yrs ago it just... disappeared. Sadly, my only suggestions are to check Digiplex earth (known culprit for no spark) and the RPM sensor (Hall-type sensor), which is located on the engine/geabox flange on my 1,4. I am not exactly sure about 1,6 layout, but the principle is the same. The sensor is supposed to show resistance from 700 to 900 Ohms and IIRC, it may fail once warmed up.

 

[Galilio_Mad]

i found this italian monster, couple of days ago, some 1200 pages containing as i believe - with absolutely no knowledge of italian - to be a complete manual/reference to all digiplex models, unfortunately it`s scanned pages so i cant just copy and paste paragraphs into a translator so i`m trying some application for OCR trying to convert even my model to english

anyway, i assume you`re talking about crankshaft position sensor aka TDC sensor
if so, yeb i have it, my old one read 700ish ohms when cold and about 1k when hot
i changed it anyway as the old one had some rust and the plastic cover was cracked, my new sensor reads about the same

also i found some readings on the internet for the temp sensor and air speed sensor
i checked mine and both falled within range

any ideas ??

 

[Galilio_Mad]

anyone ??

the Digiplex is a really expensive and i`m broke as i gust bought a set of shocks and wishbones, so i really need to make sure it`s faulty before buing another one ...

thanks in advance, your help is highly appreciated